Capturing the Wild

[00:00:00] Alex Re: Hello, welcome to On Wildlife. I'm your host Alex Re. On this podcast, we bring the wild to you. We take you on a journey into the life of a different animal every month, and I guarantee you you're gonna come out of here knowing more about your favorite animal than you did before. On this episode, we have a special guest joining us who's been all over the world documenting wildlife.

[00:00:24] Jason Edwards is a photographer for National Geographic. And he's also a fellow of the International League of Conservation Photographers. Focusing on using photography as a way to educate people about conservation. I can't wait for you to hear about some of the experiences he's had throughout his life as a photographer and some of the stories that he's covered for National Geographic channels, pure photography segment.

[00:00:50] So join me as we get to know Jason and learn a little more about conservation photography.

[00:01:12] Now let's hear from Jason and start the interview. Hey Jason, how you doing? Good day, mate. How are you? I'm great. Thanks so much for coming onto the podcast.

[00:01:24] Jason Edwards: No, thanks for having me. It's, it's nice to be back home. I just, just arrived back from Antarctica, so the timing is perfect. Oh, wow. Awesome. Gr probably a big change of weather for you too.

[00:01:34] Yeah, it was. I mean, I've, I've had the privilege of working down there for many years, but leaving the, so the Australian summer and then going back down to the cold and the gray and the, the ice. It was nice to get home this time while the weather's still nice.

[00:01:47] Alex Re: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. And I'd love to hear what first inspired you to use your photography as a tool for conservation?

[00:01:56] Jason Edwards: It's interesting. My, my journey began, I started shooting and when I was eight, actually using one of my mom's cameras. And, and when I went to high school, I was already passionate about wildlife and nature and, and I grew up in a halfway house full. For wildlife, really. My, my parents' property was only the second, second home in the estate, so there was snakes and frogs and dragons and owls and all of these sorts of things.

[00:02:22] And my, my father would bring home injured animals from the road. He was a long haul truck driver, so there was always baby kangaroos and things like that. So I never really knew any different. When I went through high school, I, I studied all of the sciences, chemistry, physics, biology, maths, things like that, and I was photographing whilst I was doing that, teaching myself, my craft, I, I bought my first camera using my paper round money from delivering papers, newspapers.

[00:02:48] So when I finished high school, I started at Melbourne Zoo pretty much straight out of high school as a zookeeper. Which was a wonderful opportunity and, and I was with the zoo for 12 and a half years. And during that time I very quickly learned the, the benefits of taking photos of wildlife and, and on my travels, which my zoo salary could fund.

[00:03:09] So I think I had my first wildlife picture published in a science journal when I was 18, I think. Oh wow. Was about the first time. Yeah. Yeah. So it was early for me that I started contributing to those kinds of media platforms.

[00:03:25] Alex Re: That's really cool and it's, it's cool that you were able to kind of have that interaction with wildlife in a separate way from your photography and then also be honing that photography skill as well.

[00:03:39] And so you were talking about how you were in that extreme. Environment of Antarctica. You've been in a lot of other extreme environments. How do you stay safe and, and did you have any close encounters with animals?

[00:03:55] Jason Edwards: The safety genetic part of my makeup is not really turned on. Um, so I have had more injuries and surgeries and diseases.

[00:04:04] We could do a whole podcast just on the things I've done to my body. So, I mean, as far as maintaining safety, I think one of the keys to success in what I do is being in tune with my instincts and. When I'm in the field, either working with wildlife or even working with people in unstable locations, you know the world's not always the friendliest place.

[00:04:25] If my body tells me to run or my brain tells me to run, I run. If it tells me to duck, I duck. When I'm working with animals and even dangerous animals, keeping in mind that I've had decades and decades of hands-on experience with endangered species and dangerous species, you know, from large angulate.

[00:04:42] Like elephants all the way through to big cats and snakes and other venomous species. So it doesn't mean things can't go wrong, but I'm relying on that accumulated knowledge of my career and my childhood and my studies and my zookeeping and my field work to help keep me safe. So, you know, it's always that disclaimer.

[00:05:02] Is it on television? Kids don't do this at home. And it's sort of the same thing you need to learn, but, but at the same point in time, I rely on that accumulated knowledge. And when I'm working with people, I very much try and embed myself in the community. Sometimes it goes sideways, rapidly, like there's no time for embedding.

[00:05:20] People are shooting at you or throwing rocks at you, or, you know, trying to hurt you. And there's times where running is the best option. You know, absolutely the best option. When I'm in the field, the conditions can be very hard. It can be very, very cold or very, very hot. The days are long, 20 hour days is a normal day for me.

[00:05:39] So those, the more tired you get, the more chance there is of injury and illness and, and something going wrong. So. It's, it's a way of life as opposed to a, to a job in the traditional sense.

[00:05:51] Alex Re: Wow. So it's really not for the faint of heart. No. And I also want to go back to where you said you have to have like a really extreme.

[00:06:02] Knowledge of your surroundings and your environment. So it's, it's really important for people to know that you can't just walk into this dangerous, treacherous area with animals that you don't know about. Right. It takes years of experience.

[00:06:17] Jason Edwards: Exactly. And research, I mean, research is, is much easier now, obviously we've got Google and all of these other things that at our fingertips, but a lot of the learning that people like myself who have been in the game a long time, that learning came osmotically.

[00:06:32] Through osmosis. For me, it was one of those scenarios that every day at the zoo I was working with wildlife of different species. I was a big cat specialist and I was a primate specialist. Gorillas, orangutans, things like that. But I, I worked with everything in the zoo, so I got hands-on experience from venomous snakes through to giraffes, and, and then, as I said, my three degrees were in.

[00:06:56] Those studies were based around wildlife and science and conservation. So I think if someone wants to do it, I think research is a great thing. If I'm bouncing from one country to the next, I don't get often the time that I would like to research as much as, as people would imagine. But again, I'm relying on 40 years of experience.

[00:07:16] Yeah, definitely.

[00:07:17] Alex Re: And is there an animal that you've. Really enjoyed shooting.

[00:07:23] Jason Edwards: Wow. That, yeah. Uh, that's an interesting question because I mean, again, it lends itself to that. When I started out and I was shooting, I created a stock agency when I was at the zoo. So the zoo would get requests for images. And they would from publishers and the zoo would pass those on to me.

[00:07:39] So I was almost stamp book collecting. I was trying to shoot as many species as I could so that if you called up and said, do you have a red belly parrot or something? Yes, I've got a red belly parrot. Do you have a lion sleeping? Yes, I've got a lion sleeping. So it took me. That agency that I built made me money, which helped fund my business, of course, my travel.

[00:07:59] But I also realized that I went through phases. You know, I went through phases where I photographed macro very heavily, so smaller in insects and reptiles and amphibians. You know, I would do a lot of macro work. And then all of a sudden I, I would be doing lots of long lens work, you know, like big long lenses, 400, 600, 800,000 millimeter lenses.

[00:08:22] And, and I know that now after, after many years on the road to your question. If I see, and I don't want to, I don't want this to sound flippant because everyone dreams of seeing, for example, a lion in the wild, but a lion is a good example. I've seen a lot of lions in the wild. Do I think that I have got the quintessential shot of a lion that I've ever wanted to get?

[00:08:46] No. Hell no. You know, I mean, have I got some really nice line material? Yeah, but I don't. In my mind's eye, there's, I, I want to do better. I wanna do it differently so I have a mantra, better or different. I just shot Zebra is a really good example, is that zebra hard to shoot Well. You know, because often they're just grazing and doing whatever, and those stripes, I'm still searching Alex decades.

[00:09:11] I started working in Africa in 92. I still do not have the zebra backside photo that I want. So there's many, many species that that I haven't shot that I would like to shoot some of them probably quite a surprise to you. And then there's others where I'm repeatedly trying to do it better or different than what I've done before.

[00:09:30] Alex Re: Yeah. I mean, wild animals are not people. They're just not gonna do what you want 'em to do. Yeah. That's part of the beauty of, of wildlife photography, I guess. And what kind of impact does photography have on conservation, and can you tell us about a time that you saw this impact in your life?

[00:09:49] Jason Edwards: Yeah, for sure.

[00:09:49] I mean, one of the things that I hold very dear is the fact that I know that I have opportunities that other people don't have. So I get to travel to parts of the world, and I make those opportunities, and I've worked hard for those opportunities. However, it's a privilege to do what I do and to go where I go, and so it's important for me to either break down those barriers, those understandings in conservation.

[00:10:13] If a species is endangered or threatened, how are they endangered or threatened? You know, why are they endangered and threatened? What can we do to stop that being the scenario? And also I do the same thing with breaking down cultures, helping people understand different faiths and, and religions and, and things like that.

[00:10:29] 'cause there's so much misleading information in the media about different humanity. Humanity, it's just breaks my heart when I hear governments and media talking about certain countries. And I've lived in those countries and then nothing like what they're saying. But with the conservation side of it, I mean, I did, I did four or five of the stories I did for one of the geographic societies that I've worked with.

[00:10:51] For in my career, were on critically endangered species, and each one of those stories, we did a fundraising exercise and because the imagery was powerful enough to move people to understand why we had these issues with these species, and, and I think on average we raise enough money in each of those stories to fund four years of research.

[00:11:16] You know, so to your question, you know, how does it make a difference? Well, if we raise awareness, people potentially donate money and $5 makes a difference, you know, or $2 or $1. It doesn't really have to even be $5. So it educates people, it brings them to places. Share the wonder of the world with them because they, you know, some people just will never have the opportunity to travel on.

[00:11:39] But conversely, that actual coalface research, uh, photography can help raise funds for those exercises sometimes for me to go in and shoot those things so that I can bring the imagery back. Sometimes it's not, the money comes directly to the projects I work on, and then the times it goes to the researchers.

[00:11:58] So, you know, it's, it's an interesting butterfly effect that most people don't realize exists.

[00:12:05] Alex Re: It is so awesome that wildlife photography can have such a positive impact on conservation. Now let's take a quick break.

[00:12:25] Today I wanna give a shout out to Leia from Washington. Her favorite animal is a Pangolin. Did you know that? Pangolins close up their nostrils and ears while they're eating so that insects can't crawl inside of them?

[00:12:51] Okay, now back to the episode. So you worked on a story for National Geographic about the wildlife pet trade. Mm-hmm. Can you tell us about that experience and why this is such an important topic to bring

[00:13:05] Jason Edwards: attention to? Yeah. It, it's interesting. It's a, it's a long-term project. I've got working in different parts of the Amazon and like Southeast Asia.

[00:13:15] The, the pet markets, the pet trade or the bush meat markets are. Notorious, you know, they're notorious. Now there's a couple of things I'd like to clarify on that. So when I started the story, like so many stories, it started where I, I took myself off and then went, wow, there's a lot to look at here, lots to see, lots to to discover, a lot of adventures to have, and mishaps to have, and diseases to.

[00:13:40] And then of course, through my work at the zoo many years ago, I was aware of how people, you know, poach animals. So there's a couple of different ways that poaching several different ways, but very, very briefly. One is, is that people will take animals for protein. So the bush meat market, we call that. And so millions and millions and millions of tons of animals all around the world get caught, caught, trapped, killed and eaten.

[00:14:07] Now, when I started looking at that in the Amazon, I became very aware very quickly when I was looking at yellow footed tortoise, which is an endangered tortoise species where half a tortoise was selling for, I think, $4 or something like that. And you're going, oh my God, half a critically endangered animal is $4.

[00:14:26] And it's heartbreaking because you see them come up and they're tortoises and they're slow, and they're easy to catch. And what's worse is they're pretty much black with a yellow cross on their back, so they're easy to find in the forest. So people catch them, they eat them. But similarly, the Amazon doesn't have farmland unless it's been cleared by people for agriculture.

[00:14:47] So we have sheep and cows and goats, and. And, and steers and all of these things that we can harvest in these areas. The rain, the rainforest is where they take their protein from. So it's very easy for you and I to sit there and go, oh my God, they shouldn't be killing these animals and eating them. But that's their supermarket.

[00:15:07] And so it's, you know, I'm always very aware, I try and help people understand that if my child was starving. And something walked past, I'm gonna kill it and eat it. You know? I mean, the vegetarians and the vegans who are, are listening to this will be going, oh my God, what is this guy saying? But for the record, I was a vegetarian for a long time, so, so I get it.

[00:15:27] But the reality is, is that you, you feed your family. That's just what humanity does. Mm-hmm. However, the other side of the market that I did some, some work in that you refer to is where people capture animals. And then they use them for the pet trade, or they use them for souvenirs and things like that.

[00:15:46] And it is heartbreaking, it's soul destroying. You know, you go into these markets and they don't want you in there, so they're trying to kill you sometimes. And you'll go in and there'll be ocelot kittens and crocodiles and monkeys and butterflies, and lizards and turtles. And if you can imagine it, it's there.

[00:16:04] And then sometimes there's the products of those things, the skins and the skulls, and all of those kinds of things. In my experience. Most of that trade is not for the indigenous people that live in these communities. I mean, they, they're already living there. They don't, yes, you'll see people with Tamarinds and other small monkeys on their shoulders, but a lot of this pet trade is actually shipped north through into Central America and North America.

[00:16:30] So, you know, the exotic pet trade in North America, I think is technically the largest in the world. And then of course in Asia, they want things that come out of South America, but they also want things that come outta the rainforest of Asia. And the same for Europe in for Africa and other parts of the world.

[00:16:47] So it's, it's to coin a phrase of, it's not just white people, but it, let's just say it's the, the western world. Are the ones that are buying these parrots and these monkeys and all of these other animals and these frogs so that they can have them at home. And that drives, it's like the latest iPhone coming out.

[00:17:05] If you buy it, someone else will go out into the rainforest and capture another one. And the horror story goes on and on and on. And when I've done the that work, you can go into a market and the next day all the things that you've seen are gone. Replaced by something else or my, the friends I work with there, we go in and pretend that we are interested in buying something to find out where the smuggling routes are so that we can document them.

[00:17:29] We never, ever buy anything. Of course, we never take anything. We just pretend that we're interested so we can get the information and get to the next link in the chain. But you know, you know, we've had times where they've said, oh, do you want Jaguar cubs? You can have those tomorrow morning or do you want this or do you want that?

[00:17:44] You know, there, there's, there's no end to these things, but the vast majority of it, I think is going into the international pet trade and or if it's souvenirs, it's people coming from countries like yours and mine who go to a market and they say, I want a wristband made out of Jaguar fur. That's just insane that Jaguar did not give up that wristband, you know, that fur for that wristband, you know, if you buy that.

[00:18:08] You're creating demand. If you see people who have cubs or birds or monkeys or anything and they say, oh, you know, if you buy this, it can be re-released. Or there's places that claim that they're doing re-release programs and things like that, and people buy animals from markets and they give them to these people and they give them thousands of dollars.

[00:18:27] These things are not getting re-released properly, if at all. Doesn't matter what the people are telling you, they're not training these animals up these cubs up to be wild out in, in pristine ecosystems. It's just not, it doesn't happen. So the Leicester demand that we can create for the animals, no matter the species, it doesn't matter.

[00:18:47] Even spiders, people love giant spiders out of South America and Asia and everything like that. But you know, those fighters are part of the ecosystem. You know, we take all these giant spiders out, it takes a whole link in the food chain out so people shouldn't be even taking tarantulas and things like that out of the wild.

[00:19:05] You know, that's just, you know, and if someone says, oh yeah, I've bred this, or I've read that. Really? Really? Did you? You know, so pet people go to pet shops and they say, oh, you know, did this come outta the wild? No, no, no, no. You need to dig deeper. Okay. Show me where it was bred. Show me the history of captive management and all of those sorts of things.

[00:19:25] Don't just believe the pet shop owner or the breeder online 'cause they're gonna tell you whatever you want to hear just to get your money.

[00:19:31] Alex Re: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And it's really important to raise awareness for that even if you yourself aren't buying. The animals because there's so many people online that are promoting this behavior that if you are watching their videos, liking their videos, then you're supporting it as well.

[00:19:50] Jason Edwards: A hundred percent. Great point. That's a really valid point and, and I mean, I remember. For, for decades there was a species of macaw that there was none left. There was like one left in the wild and then there was none left in the wild or something. There were more, more of this species of macaw in the United States than, than there were in the wild in captivity.

[00:20:10] People had them as pets, but then no one wanted to give up their macaw to someone else to breed that bird because what if something happened to, well, you give me your female, no, you give me your male, or whatever. 'cause these birds were so valuable on the exotic people. Pet trade, and I think it was only two years ago.

[00:20:27] It might've been last year, it could've been the year before. I lose track of time because of the travel, but, but I saw an article that they had finally bred a few birds in a captive breeding program in Latin America to release them into the wild. But of course, these birds have to be monitored 24 7.

[00:20:46] Because there hasn't, there haven't been birds for the poachers to catch and there's all these people out there, Alex, who are sitting there with no ethics, no morals, you know, just sitting there going, well, I'll happily pay $30,000 for that bird. Or whatever, and, and it's just like ivory poaching. If, and, and I don't care who you are, I will say it to 10,000 people in an auditorium.

[00:21:08] If you are supporting these markets, you are no better than an ivory poacher. You know? Because the reality is, is that that animal is, there's a whole network of people that are going out whipping thousands and thousands, including in my country, thousands and thousands and thousands of. Out of the wild.

[00:21:26] And the vast majority don't survive the shipping, but if they get one or two across the line, they, they've made enough to, to fund their parties or do whatever they wanna do with that money. So, you know, if you are part of it, you are literally part of it. And don't kid yourself about, oh, I'm breeding up these animals to save the species.

[00:21:44] That's just, that's just crap basically. It's absolutely crap because you're not gonna re-release those animals back into the wild. And, and we don't need more animals in captivity. Right. We don't need more animals in zoos. Zoos have got enough animals. We, we, we need less, you know? Right,

[00:21:59] Alex Re: absolutely. And you've traveled across.

[00:22:04] 70 or more countries. Has anything changed how you view wildlife conservation?

[00:22:12] Jason Edwards: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I, yeah, it's at least 70. It's probably even maybe a hundred who would know, but you know, I don't count. I don't count. But yeah, at least 70 Look, it has, because as I've gotten older and more experienced, I think I see the interconnectedness of the stories now better.

[00:22:26] I see how humanity fits into the jigsaw puzzle better than I did when I was. 20, just doing only wildlife. And I'd go away for months at a time and refuse to shoot a, a picture of a person. And then over time you learn to do that. And then you get an interest in humanity and culture and the faith and the history and all of those things that I get get to shoot these days, which is great.

[00:22:48] But the way I see the complexities of conservation and, and poaching and the how we need to support. Local communities and, and how that's the key to success and making sure that they get, you know, resources because they're protecting the habitat. I was in Madagascar when was that? June last year back in Madagascar.

[00:23:09] And so one of the villages that I went to. And Madagascar has been clear felled. I mean, you know, they've been chopping down there for centuries and it's heartbreaking when you see how much, how many trees and rainforest has gone. But you know, you, I went to this one part of Madagascar where the val, all the valleys, and they weren't huge valleys at all, but they were still in this pristine, very unusual rainforest.

[00:23:32] And so the village is very aware how desperate people are to see Malagasy wildlife and, and these. These kids grow up and instead of poaching the chameleons and all of this kind of stuff, they'll take you out. You know, so you hire people in the village now as guides to go out and, and they're finding things.

[00:23:51] So some of these chameleons are the size of my thumbnail, you know, tiny and, and these kids can find them or the adults can find them and things like that. And so you're leaving them in the wild. And then people may get to document the biodiversity and, and there's lemurs and all of that kind of thing.

[00:24:07] But then what springs up around that? Okay, suddenly there's a little art and craft market there, you know, and someone's carving a, a little timber lemur like you would find in Africa, carved out of soapstone or timber of an elephant. So people come, someone suddenly brings in a couple of crates of Coca-Cola.

[00:24:25] You know, next thing you know, there's a little cafe on the beach. So you go hiking in the rainforest, you come back, you buy a Coke and some chips or something. Like, okay, someone's now got a micro business selling food for people like you and I. And then the people, the guides, you want someone with some knowledge.

[00:24:41] So then they'll start learning more about, you know, the wildlife. So the, this, this particular community now has a raft of. Industries, cottage industries that have sprung up around people coming to see chameleons and lemurs and things like that. So they don't want to cut down any trees. They actually now realize we want more trees.

[00:25:02] But then you go to the next village that may have already stripped, farmed their FA mountain sides and eaten their wildlife. That's the big juxtaposition, isn't it? You know, that can actually create a more complex situation where there's this resentment between communities, which. It sometimes boils over into violence.

[00:25:20] I've seen that happen. You know, where, where one community says, well, if we can't have it, you don't, you can't have it. I've seen that I've, I've read articles about it in. In the, in the arctic, in, in, in, you know, Canada and, and things like that, where Inuit communities have sold their roads for oil and then, you know, it's gone terribly bad as it does all over the world with, you know, sort of alcoholism and drugs and resource damage and landscape damage and things like that.

[00:25:47] And other communities have not. And so when the oils run out, the company moves on. They don't care about the people they've paid their rent for the oil or whatever logic you wanna put onto it. And so then they, you know, I've read these, these disputes between communities, well, you now have to give us some of your money.

[00:26:02] Well, no, we actually didn't destroy our habitat. You know, that's, this is not a third world scenario. Only this can hap, this happens in Australia with mining rights. It happens in the us it happens all over the world. So, mm-hmm. You know, to your question, you know, those. Complexities that I see more now, I, I see more now than I, as my life goes on, than I did when I first started.

[00:26:26] Alex Re: It's really interesting to think about the connection between people and their communities and wildlife. Instead of just looking solely at, oh, we need to save this animal. It's endangered. We now have to put it in the context of the people that live there. How they're also surviving,

[00:26:47] Jason Edwards: correct? Yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:26:48] And I mean, even with zoos and you know, people say, oh, you know, it's must be tough for you to see lions in the wild and lions in zoos. Yeah, it is, of course. But zoos, the reputable zoos are not going and pulling animals out of the wild. They haven't done that for decades. There's stud books, we call them stud books.

[00:27:04] So you know, animals around the world are all registered with all the zoos and we know who to breed with whom, and so on and so forth. Because we don't wanna be taking animals out unless they're so critically endangered. Simar horned orx, it's a species of orx with long simar horns, zoos around the world bred those up so that you know they could be.

[00:27:24] Put back into the wild and that was great 'cause they'd all been poached. So there's success stories. But you know, if you ask me, do we need any more gorillas in zoos, an elephant's in zoos? No. No. God no. Do we need any more tigers in zoos? Do we need any more lions in zoos? All the things people love to go and see.

[00:27:40] No, we don't need those things. Are they great for gate takings? Hell yeah. Zoos love a baby gorilla. Everyone wants to come and see the baby gorilla. But the reality is, is that it's more important to be putting that funding. Nodding to the, when the zoo gets sponsorship or increased takings, they shouldn't be putting that in the bank.

[00:28:00] They should be funding communities. In those regions where those animals actually live doing conservation programs overseas. Now, you know, zoo directors over the world would be going, well, we do a little bit of this and will we do a little bit of that? And some do. There'd be a whole lot of others. Alex would be sitting there.

[00:28:17] That guy needs to shut up. He doesn't understand. But I can guarantee you, I do understand, I understand both sides of the fence because I've worked both sides of the fence for a long time. So you know, it's, should zoos be breeding these animals up? No. You know, I mean, we shouldn't, I mean, when, when I was a zookeeper, we bred an Asiatic fishing cat, a really rare, nocturnal species of cat from Asia, and the running joke was we could have swapped that kitten for about six gorillas at the time.

[00:28:44] You know, because there's all these gorillas that no one can house, you know, and, and, and this really endangered little cat that just looks like a mogie, like it looks like your mogie, you know? And, and so you know that that's the sort of thing that happens behind the scenes with conservation. It's how do we manage these limited resources and what should we be putting money behind?

[00:29:06] Yeah. That's really interesting.

[00:29:08] Alex Re: And I also wanna talk about your book. You have a new book out called Icebergs to Iguanas. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[00:29:16] Jason Edwards: Yeah, for sure. So I, every year when I'd go to Washington, that's where, of course, national Geographic space, you know, my editors would be, where's the book?

[00:29:24] So there was a lot of opportunity for storytelling. So in the end. As much as they asked me to wait, I decided, you know, let's, let's build a team of people who have worked with that geo and everything like that, and come up with, come up with a, a, a concept, you know, let you know, let me drive the project for you.

[00:29:42] And I wrote a list of stories that meant something to me personally. I just got a piece of paper, a glass of wine, and I went through. Just off the top of my head. And I wrote down 40 different stories. So then I spoke to the editors and said, you know, where, what do you think? And I said, well, what are your favorites?

[00:29:56] You know, what are, what are things that are going to be books one day in their own right. Serengeti, Amazon, Antarctica, things like that. Okay, well there's three to start with. We made a list of 16. I went back to my field journals 'cause we, because I keep field journals and I wrote the drafts for 16 stories.

[00:30:16] And we started laying them out and then they came back to me and went, it's like the Gutenberg Bible. You know, we're gonna, it's too big, we're gonna cut it in, we're gonna cut in, cut it in half, let's start a, a trilogy or something, you know. And so I spoke to iguanas as you know, the plan first volume of stories that meant something to me.

[00:30:35] And some of those stories are ongoing. Some of them went for a couple of weeks. Some of them have gone for 30 years, and of course you can't have everything, but it features my journal entries and I wrote the book. It's not ghost written and it's not AI written. I actually wrote it. You, you'll know by the mistakes probably, but, but it's also a behind, it's a behind the scene.

[00:30:56] Look at why those stories meant something to me. Some of the difficulties, the psychology behind them, and then also at the back of the book. You know, it's my thought process when I'm shooting, you know, the things I'm looking for in an image, because I ran a scholarship for, for photographers, for Nat Geo for about eight or nine years.

[00:31:14] So it's a very personal journey. It's not chronological. And some of the stories have images that come from the film days mixed in with digital images and all of those sorts of things. So those additional eight stories, just to get people sort of future excited, we ended up deciding to split those in half.

[00:31:32] And make it a trilogy rather than two volumes, so that it's like a rainbow serpent of, of travel over decades. That all goes from the Arctic to the Antarctic and New Guinea and, and cultural stories. Some of them are human based stories. Some of them are mix of wildlife and human base. Some are just wildlife.

[00:31:52] Yeah, it, it was quite the passion project.

[00:31:54] Alex Re: That's great. I cannot wait to read it and see what you've got in there because I, I can tell you've got a million stories to share and it seems like you've just been everywhere, so that's, it's awesome. And, and I'm interested to know if you have any advice. To people who wanna get involved in your kind of work with natural history photography?

[00:32:17] Jason Edwards: Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, you know, there, there's, there's so many images in that being taken these days. So as we discussed before, I, I'm not, I'm one of these people that believes anyone can go out and do this. You know, I mean, I, you know, I've mentored people for a, for, for many, many years. So if you have that interest.

[00:32:36] You've just gotta be willing to put in the, the, the hard yards and you will get a thousand knock backs. And if you don't think I still get a thousand knock backs, you're wrong. I still get a thousand knock backs. So you have to be pretty thick skinned. But also too, be passionate about it. Don't do it unless you're genuinely passionate about wildlife and conservation because it, it's a hard slog.

[00:32:58] You don't have to be able to fly to Istanbul or whatever to do this work. You can do it locally, everywhere around the world. Now, there's always projects or ecosystems or local forests or parks or river systems or birds or whatever. I can absolutely guarantee you there would be few people, like 1% of people who could not find a project to work on locally because there's 7.4 billion people on the planet.

[00:33:23] So if you are thinking that there's nothing to do, you're not looking hard enough. You know, that sounds a bit old, Manish maybe. But the reality is there is always something to do and, and if you want to get recognized by magazines and, and online portals and all of those sorts of things and book publishers, they want to see that you can tell a story.

[00:33:43] So the easiest way to show these people this, to get the work or to work for WWF or Conservation International or all, all of these great organizations that do so much work. They wanna see that you can go out and get the pictures. So practice locally, you know, practice your craft, you know? But when you're telling stories, you've gotta tell the story.

[00:34:05] It's not just about the bird. That hasn't been seen in 50 years. It's about the, the ecosystem is that impaired is something going wrong with the ecosystem. So that's what you need to do. You need to sit down and make a list of going, okay, what interests me? You know? Okay, and fine. If you've got enough money and you wanna take off and go to Africa or South America or Asia or whatever, knock yourself out.

[00:34:27] But create yourself a model by which you can function, you know? And when you go home. And the other thing is too, Alex, is that when I'm at home, I swim multiple times a week. I ride my bike every day. I'm on the treadmill and the cross trainer. Every day I do a little bit of weights, you know, just to keep the tendons and the shoulders and the back and everything strong.

[00:34:46] My day pack in, in pounds. My standard day pack is probably 70 pounds, 60 or 70 pound. I'm hiking with that anywhere from 4 35 in the morning until I finish at whatever time of night. If I'm in the Amazon, I'll hike all night with it, shooting insects, you know, so you've gotta be fit. If you're not fit, just make yourself a little bit fitter.

[00:35:05] Make sure that you can carry the gear, that your bodies can handle it, because a lot of photographers get bad necks and shoulders and backs. So put in, you know, put in that hard yard by, yeah, by all means. I'm Aussie, have a beer, have a glass of wine. I don't care. You know, but, but you know, the reality is, is that it's a full-time job.

[00:35:24] You know, you, you do the research, you plot it out. You think what makes you the, that you're passionate about, and you don't have to have a $30,000 lens or whatever. Start out small. Everyone does the same thing. So don't think about what you can make from an image if you want to do documentary or reportage, because people will wanna see the original capture, they wanna see the raw, or if you're still shooting on film or whatever, they wanna see the transparency.

[00:35:49] So don't get caught up in all of the, it's amazing. The software's amazing. Digital's amazing, but. Tell yourself I can't change this. Just tell yourself you can't change it. It makes you work harder at getting that composition right and that story, right. And then, you know, show that passion to come through.

[00:36:07] And if you want to wrap that up, I guess, here's the math I used for the scholarship. So, and I'll probably reboot it on building a teaching space, you know, and hopefully do international scholarships and bring students in from the US and everything. So five frames that tell a story about a place you've been.

[00:36:23] You know, that's where I'd leave people with this. So that was the, that's the model. I did the IP on it and everything and you know, you know, I own all of that kind of thing on this model. But for me it's like if I go somewhere, can I show you five frames of my weekend away that make you understand where I was, that give you a sense of the story, a sense of the feeling, you know, start local.

[00:36:46] That's the best way to learn to tell stories.

[00:36:49] Alex Re: That is really awesome advice. I'd love to leave it there and ask you one more question about how we can support you and your work. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:59] Jason Edwards: Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, thank you. It's, I mean, the book is out on Amazon and, and Barnes and Noble and all of those sorts of thing places, you know, and bookstores around the us which is, which is is great.

[00:37:11] You can get me via my website. There's an info. Portal there and, and people always call me for fine art prints. I don't ever get around to putting stuff on my website. Say, if you've got an interest, just, I'm always out there. But no, no, people, philanthropically people have supported some of the projects that I do either in the field or in the publishing space and, and that's, that helps keep me on the road.

[00:37:33] So by all means, reach out to me personally and I'll come back to you. That'd be great.

[00:37:37] Alex Re: Awesome. Well, Jason, thanks so much again for coming onto the podcast. I, it was a pleasure talking to you. I learned so much. Thanks again. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for having me. It

[00:37:48] Jason Edwards: was a pleasure.

[00:37:50] Alex Re: I wanna thank Jason for coming onto the podcast to share some of his experiences with us.

[00:37:55] He's been all over the world viewing different cultures and ecosystems, and I love his perspective of how communities and the surrounding wildlife interact with each other. Jason is using his work as a photographer to help us learn about wildlife conservation in new ways, and I'm so glad that he was able to give us a look inside his world.

[00:38:16] If you wanna support Jason, visit his website@www.jasonedwards.co. Some organizations working to help all wildlife are global wildlife Conservation and National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with me. As we explored the world of conservation photography, you can find the sources that we use for this podcast and links to organizations that we reference@onwildlife.org.

[00:38:46] You can also email us with any questions at On Wildlife dot podcast@gmail.com, and you could follow us on Instagram at On Wildlife, or on TikTok at On Wildlife. And don't forget to tune in next month for another awesome episode, and that's on Wildlife.

[00:39:10] Jess Avellino: You've been listening to On Wildlife with Alex Re. On Wildlife provides general educational information on various topics as a public service, which should not be construed as professional financial, real estate, tax, or legal advice. These are our personal opinions only. Please refer to our full disclaimer policy on our website for full details.