Domesticated Bees

Alex Re: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome to On Wildlife. I'm your host, Alex Re. On this podcast, we bring the wild to you. We take you on a journey into the life of a different animal every month, and I guarantee you you're gonna come out of here knowing more about your favorite animal than you did before. In this episode, we're gonna focus on one of the most crucial animals in our society today.

We've discussed them on previous episodes, but today we're specifically looking at the ones that we've domesticated. Our special guest today, Jennie Durant, is a writer and researcher who has spent over 10 years researching the role that these animals have in the environment and in our agriculture industry.

So try not to get stung as we dive into the world of domesticated bees. Hi, Jennie. Thanks so much [00:01:00] for coming onto the show. Um, how are you doing?

Jennie Durant: I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on, Alex.

Alex Re: Of course. I, I can't wait to start talking with you about bees. Um, can you tell me a little bit about what inspired you to become a bee researcher?

Jennie Durant: Yeah. So, um, I'm a social scientist, and, uh, so it means I kind of... I study the people who work with bees, and but I spend a lot of time just understanding bees as well. Um, and so my start, uh, in the bee world was kind of unusual. Um, I was living in the Philippines, and I was a Fulbright Scholar. And so I was studying rice terraces in the Philippines up in the nor- northern, uh, mainland of Luzon.

And I was really homesick, and my friend, who was this Peace Corps volunteer, was... had left the region. And one of my friends had given me A Secret Life of Bees by Sue [00:02:00] Monk Kidd. Something about the descriptions of beekeeping, like, really spoke to me, and I was like, "I need to go find a beekeeper. That's gonna help me with my homesickness," you know?

Which is, like, not a normal inclination for me. So I sought out this woman who had a resort, uh, down... I say a resort, it's not what you're thinking. It's like, it was, like, maybe six buildings, and it was this really sweet little location in, in this island called Bohol. And, um, they... she had designed the buildings to...

They were hexagonally shaped, and, uh, to be like a, the cell of a bee. And, um, the kitchen had, like, all honey was woven into all the food recipes. And then, um, she had bees on the site, and then she also taught beekeeping to farmers across the island. And so I went and kind of did a little internship with her, and, uh, for, like, 10 days.

And this was in 2007, and, um, that was when colony collapse disorder first was, like, hitting the [00:03:00] news in a major way. And so I, um, I'm, like, falling in love with these bees and then finding out that there's this, like, mystery, mystery disease that's killing them. Uh, we didn't know what it was at the time. So they were...

What was happening was beekeepers were, like, opening their colonies and- Most of the bees were gone, and this was very unusual, um, behavior. And so scientists, like, could not figure out what was going on. They were like, "You know, is it cell phones? Is it pesticides? Is it some kind of, you know, pest?" And we still don't fully know what caused those losses at the time, but all I knew was to me, I was like so intrigued, and I really wanted to figure out what was driving bee losses.

And then eventually I decided to start a PhD program at UC Berkeley, and that's where I kind of really started diving into, um, trying to understand bee losses through this lens of being a social scientist. So like what are the economic, social drivers, you know, behind bee losses? What's this, like, bigger system that honeybees are [00:04:00] operating in and beekeepers are operating in, and how might that be a driver, uh, to bee losses?

So that was kinda how I, how I got my start.

Alex Re: That's really interesting, and I'm sure some of that information is, uh, gonna be in your upcoming book that's coming out on May 26th called Bitter Honey. Can you give us a little bit of a synopsis of that?

Jennie Durant: Yeah, sure. So Bitter Honey, uh, the, the subtitle is Big Ag's Threat to Bees and the Fight to Save Them, and that really captures what the book's about.

Um, it really looks at how indu- industrial agricultures, uh, how industrial agriculture threatens our bees, you know, and, and puts a lot of pressure on them, uh, in particular, and, um, and puts a lot of pressure on beekeepers in turn. So I look at some of the practices, uh, within our farm system, um, like monoculture agriculture, pesticide practices, and how those are harmful to bees.

And then I also look at how beekeepers have industrialized the production of bees [00:05:00] over the last, like, 20 to 30 years to be able to pollinate, um, our agricultural system on s- on, like, a really large scale. So looking at, like, trucking bees cross-country or pest management or breeding techniques, um, feeding supplements.

You know, how do these things, uh, this kind of, uh, stepping up of bee production, h- how is that making bees more vulnerable as well? But it's also a very hopeful, uh, book, I feel. Um, and, and the book is full of stories about beekeepers, so it's very narrative, and I spent a lot of time kind of traveling all over the US visiting them and going to North Dakota, interviewing policymakers in DC, going all over California.

And then at the end, the last third of the book is really about that fight to save them, and so it talks about these three different, three different chapters with different, um, things like, uh, you know, farming practices, adopting large-scale forage plots, like, which is, like, big, you know, swaths of bee flowers, and then things we [00:06:00] can do at home, uh, to help, uh, bees as well.

So that, that's kinda the general gist of the book.

Alex Re: That sounds great, and I can't wait to touch on a little bit of that later on in the episode. And bees are such an interesting animal because they're so interwoven in our society, our economics, our way of life without us even knowing it. So it's just, it's gotta be such an interesting topic to be, uh, researching all the time.

Jennie Durant: Yeah, I mean, it's been taking up way too much of my time. It's, like, all I've been thinking about since, like, you know, 2007 but especially since 2012, so definitely still find it interesting and, and, uh, am excited to, you know, keep exploring, and I'm always learning more.

Alex Re: That's great, and can you walk us through the story of how bees were domesticated in the United States?

Jennie Durant: Yeah, it's kinda cool. You know, I think a lot of people might think that honeybees are from the US, but actually they were brought here [00:07:00] by, um, our, you know, the European colonists. The first recorded shipment was in 1622, uh, which from Europe, uh, to Virginia. And, um, and colonists were, you know, really reliant on bees back then.

I, I think it's hard for us in this world of, like, sugar being available, uh, to imagine what it was like to, like, have very few sources of sweeteners, you know, back then. And so honey was one of the key sweeteners that the colonists used for their food. They would also use... make mead, which is, like, a fermented honey drink, um, an alcoholic drink.

And, um, they would use, you know, the wax for candles. And so they were this really, like, helpful backyard, you know, livestock that they had. And as we started moving west, um, beekeeper or I would say homesteaders, you know, would take these ba- these upside-down baskets called skeps, and they would store bees in those, or they would have them in logs.

But the problem was to harvest honey, you would often have to kill the [00:08:00] colony because you'd kinda get in there and you'd pull this, the wax comb out, and the bees, you know, the colony often wouldn't survive, uh, that process. And so beekeepers were always trying to figure out... I mean, I don't know if we've even still domesticated them, but you know, we've partly domesticated them.

And the big thing was how can we create a co- a hive where we can pull the frames out of the colony so that we can harvest honey from it and we can also inspect it and see, like, are these bees sick? How are they doing? And so, um, in, I think it was around 1852, I'm always terrible with dates, Lorenzo Langstroth created the Langstroth hive, and that was the first movable frame hive.

And basically, if you can just imagine, like, a white box with eight to 10 frames in it, and you can pull the frames out and look at them. And what, what we found out, well, what he found out was making it so difficult was that bees need to have, like, a certain amount of space that he calls bee space in between the [00:09:00] frames.

If it's too wide, they'll put in wax, so they'll build wax in there. And if it's too narrow, they just won't use that space 'cause they can't travel up, up between the frames. And so he found just that right amount of space, and he called it bee space, and that was how he then made his, his, um, his hives, uh, his colony design.

And it's basically the same boxes that we use now. They're very much the same as they were back in the 1850s. And so what was cool about it So all of a sudden you could inspect the hives, you could see if your hives, your colonies were getting too big, you could split them, and you could move them around, and you could, uh, and you could, um, create these much larger apiaries than beekeepers had ev- had ever been able to do before.

And so it made beekeeping into more of a, you know, a real operation, an ability... Something you could kinda make a living off of. And that really set the stage for what came later, which was beekeepers becoming commercial honey producers. They were producing honey [00:10:00] during World War II, and wax. They were really, really, um, central to the war efforts.

And then eventually they also became, uh, commercial pollinators, pollinating our crops, helping grow alfalfa seeds that were feeding our cattle and, you know, helping with pollinate apples. And so that Langstroth colony and a few other inventions that have helped beekeepers really set the stage for that kind of domestication and, and sort of making it into a commercial, commercially viable operation.

Alex Re: That, that's just amazing. It's... I'd never thought that there was so much that went into beekeeping. Oh. And that kinda brings me into my next question. I'd love to know if there's a misconception that people who don't work in the beekeeping industry have about bees.

Jennie Durant: Yeah. I mean, I think that a lot of people think that beekeeping is this kind of idyllic practice, and you're in your backyard, and you've got your bee suit on, and the bees are, like, softly humming, [00:11:00] and you get-

a colony of bees and they make you honey, and there aren't really any issues. I had that same misconception when I first started out. I got some bees two or three times, and they all died, and, uh, very quickly. So I think the thing that would surprise most people is how industrial beekeeping is. It's this, these large...

You know, the beekeepers that are pollinating our crops and producing most of our honey are operating at these massive scales, and so- You know, some beekeepers have 1,000. Some beekeepers, one operation has, like, 90,000 colonies that it's a family operation, and they're managing this, like, you know, herd, um, of colonies, you know, across-

the United States. And it's really kind of a feast-or-famine endeavor, right? So, like, in, uh, California, we have the almond industry. It blooms in the middle of February, and it's there for about a month. And then as soon as it ends, beekeepers have to find a new location, you know, to take their bees to. So [00:12:00] they've got billions of mouths to feed, and they have to load them up, you know, sometimes 400 to 500 on a semi truck.

And then they're trucking them off to the next either pollination contract or the next place where they're gonna be producing honey. And it's this huge operation with a ton of labor, and they're having to check for mites and pests and diseases. And it's a lot of hard work, and, um, and it just requires, like, intense logistics, you know, that I think a lot of us wouldn't associate with beekeeping, you know.

But that, that is really sort of what, what it is at this commercial scale.

Alex Re: Yeah, that's crazy. So it's not like having a little garden in your backyard. There's so much upkeep that's involved in it.

Jennie Durant: Even with hobby beekeeping, which is like having a colony in your backyard, it still is a lot of work. And I think a lot of people don't understand just, like, again, like I said, like, how much they're gonna have to manage for pests and, and really monitor their bees, um, and put effort and time into understanding [00:13:00] how it works to keep bees.

They're, they're not, like, an easy pet to have.

Alex Re: It's so interesting to learn about the ins and outs of the beekeeping industry. Let's take a quick break, and when we get back, we'll take an even deeper dive. You're gonna wanna hear about the bee refrigerators in North Dakota.

On today's episode, I want to give a shout-out to Noelle from Washington. One of her favorite animals is a binturong. These mammals are closely related to civets and fossas. Did you know that they mark their territories using scent glands and that they smell like popcorn? The popcorn smell is because of a chemical in their urine that's also produced when popcorn is popped.

If you want a shout-out or you want to support our show, you should join our [00:14:00] Patreon at patreon.com/onwildlife. Okay, now back to the episode. I remember you talking about, a little bit about your time in North Dakota, and I would love to know about these bee refrigerators in North Dakota.

Jennie Durant: Yeah, this was so surprising for me.

The first time I saw one, I went to North Dakota to visit, um, a beekeeper who I talk about in the book, um, his name was John Miller, and, and a few other beekeepers as well. He took me to go see this, this overwintering warehouse. And, and basically what these refrigerators are, are used for is to, uh, overwinter bees so that they're in kind of a safe place when it's, you know...

And imagine North Dakota, there's a ton of snow, it's super cold, and this is a way to keep all the colonies in one place. You can control the temperature. You know, you can, um, inspect them in this, like, really nice, safe place. But, um, yeah, so imagine, like, a giant airplane hangar, and it's, like, this huge, huge warehouse or, like, an empty [00:15:00] Ikea or something.

And you can, you know, pull in a giant semi-truck and, um, there's tens of thousands of colonies on either side. Um, a lot of them have red lights along the top of the ceiling, and that's because... And then they can, uh, shine them down because bees aren't bothered by red light. And so, um, if you have normal lights on, it can stress them out or wake them up, kind of pull them out of their winter cluster, which is kind of like hibernation for bees.

And so these red lights are how the beekeepers will work on the colonies, and then they'll use a big old fork-forklift and lift them up and put them onto the semi-trucks, you know, before, before they h- uh, ship them off to almonds. And, um, and they can control the CO2 levels, they can control the temperature, the amount of fresh air that's getting blown in.

Um, and they tend to, um, build them out of California because, um, it's just they're so huge, you know, and land is so expensive here in California that you-you'll, you'll [00:16:00] often see them in, like, North Dakota or Idaho, you know, Montana Might be a, you know, a great location where you can just pull in cool air from the outside to cool off the bees.

Um, so they're kinda just these like wild giant spaces. But there's a lot of science showing that bees who go into these, these refrigerators actually do really well. They have, tend to have lower mite counts, that pest I was mentioning earlier, and they tend to have, um, their bodies just tend to be kinda healthier coming out of, um, and more robust coming out of the warehouses.

So it's just something about that stable temperature and bringing them in, uh, in the fall so they don't have to be, um, searching for food too late into the fall. It just tends to produce a stronger, healthier bee for almond pollination.

Alex Re: That is so interesting, and something that I think a lot of our viewers might not know is just how big of an industrial endeavor, uh, beekeeping is.

Yeah. Something that I never really thought about. Yeah. So [00:17:00] that it's just, it crazy what goes into keeping these bees healthy and alive and all around really crazy.

Jennie Durant: Yeah.

Alex Re: And you were talking-

Jennie Durant: I'm here

Alex Re: to blow

Jennie Durant: your mind, Alex.

Alex Re: Um, you were talking about, uh, the mites that are- Kind of impacting bee populations.

What are some of the main factors that go into that and some other problems that bees are facing right now?

Jennie Durant: You know, I think that when colony collapse disorder was happening, we were really looking for, like, a silver bullet, and there just hasn't been a single driver of bee declines. And so I really talk about it as industrial agriculture being a major driver, but we could break it down even a bit more.

And so beekeepers talk about the four Ps. Um, and so they talk about pests, and so the first pest that is the most problematic are these Varroa mites that I mentioned. And, you know, they're ki- it's kinda like, well, it's sort of like a, a tick, you know, that's on a bee. Um, but the [00:18:00] way I like to think about it, um, is if you imagine a giant crab that is attached to your torso and just sort of sucking on your liver slowly over time, and that's what's happening.

Not too pleasant. Exactly. But it's evocative of why these bees are so sick, you know, because, um, they have these, like, ticks that just feed on them, uh, c- for a long period of time, and it's feeding on their fat body, which kind of functions like a, a liver, and, uh, in terms of detoxifying them. And then, uh, they're also spreading diseases, and so the second P is pathogens.

Um, and one of the big ones is what's called deformed wing virus, and that is a virus that's spread through, by mites. And then you also have, um, fa- this, what's called foulbrood, which is, there's, like, a European version, an American version, and those can just wipe out entire colonies. And then the third one is pesticides, which probably most people are gonna be the most familiar with, and it's definitely an issue, but the nice thing about pesticides is, um, beekeepers [00:19:00] can often negotiate with the, the farmers or landowners that they're, whose land they're on.

Like, "Hey, could you apply this at a certain time of day?" Or, "Could you hold off on doing that till I can get my bees out of here?" Um, and so there's a little more wiggle room for you know, negotiating how pesticides might affect you. You can't control your bees. Sometimes they fly way off the property that you're on, searching for food.

But there is some, some leeway there. And, and there's a lot of, you know, pesticide-- a lot of pesticides have labels on them that say, indicate whether they're at least acutely bee toxic. Mm-hmm. Um, but there are some that are sub-lethally toxic, um, like neonicotinoids, which people might have heard of, which means that they can make bees sick in subtler ways.

Like they can affect their navigation abilities or their ability to learn or, or their ability to kind of, um, to reproduce. And so these are things that kinda make a colony sick rather than kill them outright. And those are kind of the big concerns for the beekeeping industry [00:20:00] is these sub-lethally toxic pesticides.

Um, the fourth P is prairie, and I would just describe it as bee-friendly flowers. And that's a huge, uh, issue that we're dealing with. It's just, there's just not enough flowers, you know, for all the bees we have, honeybees and the native bees. And so, um, so that's, that's an issue. And then I'd also, um, mention...

Well, climate change, um, is, is also an, an issue, and then also policies. You know, like there are government policies, federal, state, local policies that can also really make it difficult for b- for beekeepers and bees to be healthy. You know, the world that they're navigating, that beekeepers and bees are, are navigating and, and some of the-- They all kind of intersect, you know, in this nexus of challenges to make, you know, make bee life a little more difficult.

Alex Re: Yeah, definitely. And I would assume that climate change probably increases the likelihood of these, uh, diseases and, uh, the, the mites that, that feed on the bees as well.

Jennie Durant: Yeah. It's [00:21:00] really a force multiplier, right? And then, and then the other issue that we have is like you've got drought, and then, you know, then you don't have flowers, right?

Because they dry up too quickly. Maybe they're dried up before the beekeeper, you know, even arrives. And so like there were a couple-- It was a couple years ago, there was such a bad drought in the Midwest, which is where I think it's like 40% of all US colonies go to produce, uh, honey each summer to the, to this particular region in the Midwest.

And the drought was so bad that beekeepers like couldn't make any honey, and then all of a sudden they were like, "Do I feed my bees? Do I find some new place down south where there's been some rainfall and take them there?" And then wildfire is, you know, wiping out bee forage, especially like on public lands where, you know, which really affects native bees.

And so it's, it's really, um, a sh- a shifting landscape for bees and beekeepers right now, and climate change really exacerbates, exactly as you said, like how all of these, uh, mites and so on [00:22:00] are impacting bees.

Alex Re: Yeah, absolutely. And I feel like a lot of us take honey for granted because we can walk into the grocery store at any time and pick out our selection of all the different honey brands, but the amount of work and effort that goes into that is just unfathomable.

Jennie Durant: So much, and, and another piece I would just encourage, you know, or I would, I would mention is that, you know, a lot of the honey is not from the United States. Um, beekeepers- Mm-hmm ... I can't remember exactly what the percentage is, but they're producing something like a quarter or a fifth of, of the honey that's for sale.

And some honey... Honey's actually the third most adulterated food in the world. And so some of the honey we're getting off the shelves isn't even just honey. It's sometimes honey mixed with other syrups or, uh, depending on where you're getting it from. So I would just always encourage people to, you know, try and make sure your honey's sourced from the US or from a local beekeeper, that then you really know that you're getting, you know, a quality product.

But yes, we still take it for [00:23:00] granted, you know, even then, and, and it's so true, like, just understanding all the work that goes into making honey is, it's, it's, it's a massive, uh, undertaking.

Alex Re: Yeah, definitely. And aside from the honey, what are some other reasons why people should really care about these declining bee populations?

Jennie Durant: It's funny because bees are like these invisible laborers in our food system, and they are pollinating a third of every bite we eat. It's like 35% of our total crop volume benefits from pollination services, and it's like, I think it's something like 75% of our top crops. So we really depend on them. Not every crop needs bees.

Almonds need bees, for example, but some benefit from bee, uh, pollination and, and, and just, you know, other animal pollination. But what happens then as we lose pollinators is- You know, harvests become smaller, and sometimes even just the crop themselves are smaller, fruits are [00:24:00] smaller. And that means that if the harvest is smaller, then there's less of that on the market, and the prices become more expensive.

And so, you know, bees are pollinating some of our most nutritious foods, like, you know, we're, we're getting like vitamin C, vitamin A, you know, vitamin E from, from the foods that bees are pollinating. And so, um, it can lead to, you know, nutritional deficiencies for people who can't afford those fresh fruits and vegetables.

One study I read kind of blew my mind. It was, uh, estimating that insufficient pollination has-- leads to about half a million deaths each year, uh, because of the nutritional ef- you know, uh, effects of not having enough, um, you know, uh, uh, not having adequate nutrition, um- Wow ... because there's insufficient pollination around the world.

And so, you know, this, this really does have major effects, maybe not here in the US, but, you know, who knows, um, how, how long, um, you know, that will last. And so I really try and [00:25:00] help people understand that even if it's not affecting you, you know, it's affecting food equity for somebody somewhere to, to not have our pollinators, so we need to do everything we can to try and support them.

Alex Re: So what are some of the actions that beekeepers are taking to support bees?

Jennie Durant: Yeah. So, I mean, kind of everything they're doing is to support bees. You know, like- ... that's all they think about is, like, "How can I keep my bees alive?" But two of the cool things that really come to mind is they've been just really initiating pretty amazing relationships with farmers.

One of the cool partnerships I like to talk about is, or that has really impressed me, is their partnership with the, uh, the almond industry. And so back in 2014, a bunch of beekeepers got together with some growers and, and sort of, uh, um, representatives in the industry, and they came up with a pra- a, a set of bee best management practices or bee BMPs.

And a lot of that was how can we communicate about pesticide practices and maybe shift pesticide [00:26:00] practices so that bees are healthier during bloom? And, um, and that's had some real success. I'm working with some colleagues right now to study, like, have we seen a measurable decline in, you know, in certain fungicides which are bee toxic, um, as a result?

And our initial results are saying yes, uh, that these, that these, um, bee BMPs have resulted in actual fewer fungicides being used, uh, during bloom. And the other piece besides, like, pesticides has been, um, a real increase in the adoption of, uh, like, cover crops and, uh, hedgerows. And so if you can just imagine, you know, rows of...

in an orchard, so in this case almonds, and then, um, so you've got your trees in, um, on either side, and in the middle there's a strip, and that's where you would typically drive, like, your, you know, your shaker that's gonna shake the trees so the almonds fall off or your sprayer to spray agrochemicals. But in the middle for, um, especially during bloom, some farmers are growing cover crops, and so you'll see [00:27:00] these beautiful stands with mustard and daikon radish with, like, yellow and white flowers, and they help provide additional food and a more diverse diet for bees while they're in the almond orchard.

And so one of the people I talk about in the book is this woman, uh, Christine Gemperle, and she has this incredible farm, and it was, um, featured by, uh, on, I think it was on Green Planet, um, 'cause it just, like, looks so cool and inspiring. And so farms can really become places that nourish life, you know, not just producing a single crop, but they are helping...

These, these cover crops can help feed the soil. They can retain more water. They can attract beneficial pests. And, you know, a lot of this is coming out of this relationship between beekeepers and farmers and this close reliance that they have, and farmers are like, "Well, how can I help?" You know? "How can I help keep your bees healthy while they're here, and maybe even attract, you know, some beneficial pests and other, you know, native pollinators when the bees are gone, you know, the managed honey bees [00:28:00] are gone?"

So that's been something that's been really exciting for me to see.

Alex Re: That's great, and there's a big problem with those monocultures where you're only growing one type of crop. It's not only bad for the bees. It could be bad for the soil, for, uh, when you're trying to grow plants for the next year. So it's helping not only the bees, but, but everybody.

Jennie Durant: Yes, exactly. Yeah. Uh, it's, it's, it's, I mean, it really, it, it really underscores that our farmers are land stewards. And, and the last thing I would just say about that is they also need support. So anything that we can do to, you know, there's some great programs, like one of them is called Project Apis m, and they have helped, um, fund like the first three years of cover crop adoption for farmers.

And so that helps them kinda just get a little financial incentive and support to get going with some of these practices, 'cause, you know, there's risks involved in, in adopting any new practice. So, um, so that's also one way that, you know, beekeepers and we can also support [00:29:00] farmers is, is figuring out programs that are helping get these kinds of, uh, programs off the ground, you know, and, um, and supporting those

Alex Re: Yeah, that's great.

And can you list some of the other ways that the average person can help bees?

Jennie Durant: Yeah, for sure. I mean, so I don't know if you've ever read, uh, Michael Pollan's In Defense of Food, but he has this little saying, uh, which you may have heard, which is, "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." This is, like, his advice on how to eat well, you know?

And so I, I really always loved that he had this, like, little pithy statement, and so I came up with one of my own that's not nearly as good. But, um, but just sort of, like, three things that I try and encourage people, you know, to think about how we can help bees. And so, um, mine is plant flowers, limit pesticides, and share the land.

And so to talk about each of them a little bit, um, the biggest thing if anyone takes anything away from here is we just need more flowers. Like, bees are hungry. We need to give them food. I typically say don't get a honeybee colony. Like, it is so much work. It is really [00:30:00] hard. There are already so many sort of mouths to feed right now.

Um, if you really wanna help, planting flowers is the way to go. And so you can, um... There are guides you can look at. Like, there's a couple websites. One of them is, um, Xerces Society, which is X-E-R-C-E-S, and they have a lot of information about how to get native plants in your backyard. Uh, Pollinator Partnership is another amazing organization, um, that does, uh, has similar information.

Um, you can talk to your na- you know, native plant gardens. I always encourage native plants, um, partly because they can provide food for the native bees in your area, and then also they tend to just be more robust to, like, climate change sort of vari- or, you know, climate variability. Um, so, like, droughts or winters, you know, those plants have evolved over time to thrive in those areas.

And then in terms of limiting pesticides, and that one's kinda obvious, like, pesticides can... We, we often overapply them. We can also buy plants from nurseries that are really cautious with or just don't use [00:31:00] pesticides at all, um, so that we're putting really clean plants, you know, onto our properties. Just being really mindful and thoughtful and using them as judiciously as possible.

And then the last thing in terms of, um, sharing the land, that's a bit of a mindset change, and that's something that really, um, hit me as I was working on this book. I was really impacted by a few people I talked to in the kind of solution section of the book, and it was really like- How do we think of the land that we're on, not just as it belonging to us and sort of here for us to use and enjoy, but as land that is shared, you know, by, by so much wildlife, and by insects, and animals in the soil, and mammals that we're not seeing kind of, you know, crossing in and out of our yards at night?

And it may sound a bit corny, but I really think that developing sort of a, a sharing the land, a, you know, sort of ethos can help us, you know, be more conscientious about how, how we're using the landscapes [00:32:00] we're in, how we interact with them, the respect we give to the other, you know, creatures that share the planet with us.

I think that will go a long way towards helping, um, helping our bee populations and, um, and the other animals that rely on them, uh, to thrive.

Alex Re: Yeah, I completely agree, and I think there's something so rewarding about making, let's say, your backyard a wildlife-friendly backyard, and then you get to reap the rewards of seeing these animals thriving in your own backyard, and you get, you get to share that, uh, with them.

So I, I think that's, that's amazing.

Jennie Durant: Yeah. We... Uh, a quick, a quick note on that. We, um, we bought this, uh, property here in Berkeley, um, and it was just like this very small house, and then it has this big yard in the back, and it was just grass and dirt. And we were like, "Okay, we really should fix up our house, but let's just make this yard really amazing."

And so we planted this, like, central area that's just pollinator plants, and we [00:33:00] never touch it. And I mean, we, we plant new plants in as they die, but, like, we don't use it for anything. And it's so cool. And we'll just like sit on the chairs in the backyard, and we just watch the bees and the butterflies flow through, and the hummingbirds, and it's like this little botanical garden in the back-

you know, now that we have all these, um, all these, all this wildlife coming through. And, uh, it's just been really inspiring. And so I'm a big fan of, like, lawn removal and, uh, even just a portion of it to try and plant some food, um, for bees. So if people are into science or are already kind of checking out the things in their backyard or in their neighborhood, that's, um...

They can, you know, take photos and kind of help with, uh, data collection at, on a national scale, which is, which is so helpful for the researchers trying to figure out how to support our pollinators.

Alex Re: Yeah, I love that, and I think that's a perfect way to end the interview because leaving it on a positive note, how we can help-

I think that's awesome. So Jennie, thank you so much again for coming onto the show. Really enjoyed our conversation.

Jennie Durant: Oh, it was such a pleasure, and I, I [00:34:00] love what you're doing here on this, on this podcast. I'm just so happy to be a part of it.

Alex Re: Well, thank you. There's no doubt that bees are extremely important for so many foods and products that we enjoy and really take for granted.

I had such a great time talking with Jennie, and I'm so glad I was able to hear her insights into the bee industry. She's doing such amazing work spreading the word about how crucial bees are to our society and some of the problems that they're facing today. You should go check out her new book, Bitter Honey.

And if you want to support some organizations that are working to help bees, you should also take a look at The Bee Conservancy, pollinator.org, and New York Bee Sanctuary. Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with me as we explored the world of domesticated bees. You can find the sources that we used for this podcast and links to organizations that we referenced at onwildlife.org.

You could also email us with any questions, and you can follow us on Instagram at [00:35:00] on_wildlife or on TikTok at onwildlife. And don't forget to tune in next month for another awesome episode, and that's On Wildlife.