Camels

128 Camels

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[00:00:00] Alex Re: Hello. Welcome to On Wildlife. I'm your host, Alex Re. On this podcast, we bring the wild to you. We take you on a journey into the life of a different animal every week, and I guarantee you you're going to come out of here knowing more about your favorite animal than you did before. This week, we'll be talking about an animal that lives in some of the most extreme environments on Earth.

[00:00:25] Though they may look a little strange, They're really well adapted for survival in these places. And we have a special guest, Anna Jemmett, who has spent years doing research on them. So make sure you pack a couple of extra water bottles, because we're heading to the desert to talk about camels.

[00:00:59] There are three [00:01:00] camel species in the world, Camelidae family. And some of their closest relatives are llamas and alpacas. They can usually be found in dry, barren environments like deserts, and they live in parts of Asia and Africa. The Bactrian camel is the largest species. They get to be over 11 feet long and weigh more than a thousand pounds.

[00:01:25] And of course, their most defining feature is the fact that they have humps on their back. Depending on the species, they can either have one or two humps. They're strictly herbivores, who eat grasses and shrubs. And because they live in an environment where food is hard to come by, they've adapted to be able to survive months without food.

[00:01:48] There are a lot of really cool things to know about camels, and even some things that you may have heard about them that aren't necessarily true. And here to help us understand these huge mammals is Anna [00:02:00] Jemmett, who is an ecologist at the Wild Camel Protection Foundation. She recently completed her PhD on camels, and we've got a lot to learn from her.

[00:02:10] So let's hear how she became interested in studying these animals. Hi, Anna. How are you doing?

[00:02:17] Anna Jemmett: Hi, Alex. I'm really good. Thank you. How are

[00:02:19] Alex Re: you? I'm good. Thanks so much for coming on to the show. Delighted to be here. Great. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself and how you became interested in camels?

[00:02:30] Anna Jemmett: So I first learned about the wild camel when I was doing my undergraduate zoology degree in Aberdeen in Scotland. And I was reading about the Paswalski's wild horses or the Taki as they're called in Mongolia. And I thought I'd really like to be able to go and see them. But in reading about the horses, I discovered that there was a wild camel that lives in the Gobi Desert that I'd never heard of.

[00:02:53] It's a species that, um, migrates through the nuclear testing zone in China, and it drinks salt water. And I just thought, how could I [00:03:00] not know that this thing exists? I want to know more. So from then I contacted the charity, which I now work for and was able to go and volunteer with them and I've just been hooked on the species ever since.

[00:03:11] Alex Re: That's great. And like you were saying, you're working with the Wild Camel Protection Foundation. Can you tell us a little bit about the foundation and what the mission is?

[00:03:23] Anna Jemmett: The Wild Camel Protection Foundation was started in 1997. So it was started by a man named John Hare and a woman called Kate Ray.

[00:03:31] John had traveled to Mongolia and to China in the Gobi Desert, and had found these camels and didn't know much about them, and heard about their plight and thought he had to do something to save them. So from then, they managed to get the wild camel protected, both in Mongolia and China. There was national parks set up for the species on either side of the border and a captive breeding center was started as an insurance against extinction of the populations in the wild.

[00:03:58] So the Wild Camel Protection [00:04:00] Foundation has been running in Mongolia and China ever since. Most of our work is done in Mongolia now. We have a captive breeding center that has 36 camels that we're breeding in case of extinction in the wild. So the sole aim of the Wild Camel Protection Foundation is to protect the wild camel and its Gobi Desert habitat from extinction.

[00:04:19] Alex Re: That's amazing and it seems like Not a lot of people know about these camels, so it's really important work because they might be forgotten if not for your organization.

[00:04:30] Anna Jemmett: Yeah, so the wild camel is critically endangered, so that means there's less than a thousand left in the wild. It's one of the most endangered large mammals on the planet.

[00:04:38] Most people don't know that it exists, and it took until not very long ago to prove that it was actually a separate species to the domesticated Bactrian camel.

[00:04:47] Alex Re: Interesting. Wow. And you've been working on a project with the foundation involving genetics and population estimates. Could you explain a little bit about your research?

[00:04:58] Anna Jemmett: So I've just completed my [00:05:00] PhD research on the wild camel. The aim of my research was to produce a management plan for the species in Mongolia. So we wanted to learn what we need to do to save the species from extinction. There's not a lot known about the species, so one important question was how many are actually left.

[00:05:17] So I did a population estimate using camera traps placed across the entirety of the National Park in Mongolia. The National Park is 45, 000 square kilometers, so that's twice the size of Wales. I don't know what your American version would be, but I'm sure it's about the same size as probably a small state.

[00:05:34] So yeah, it's a big area. So we placed camera traps across it and the pictures that we collected from that allowed us to be able to produce a population estimate. What the population estimate means is that from now we'll be able to repeat this work and look at trends going into the future. So right now we think the population is decreasing, but now we have a number and we know that we're able to look at that through time.

[00:05:58] So in the future we can know whether it's [00:06:00] increasing or decreasing. The second part of my PhD was to look at the genetics of the population. So we wanted to see how healthy the population was. We presume that it's small, so we wondered whether inbreeding is a problem. You want genetic diversity in populations because it allows the species to adapt to changing environments, so that as things change they're able to survive that.

[00:06:24] So I looked at diversity in the wild and also diversity in the captive population. We needed to learn whether the captive population is a good representation of those in the wild. If we're saying this is our insurance against extinction, we want to have the very best insurance that's possible. So the, the good news for my results is that yes, our captive population is as diverse as the wild.

[00:06:47] Both of them show some reduction in genetic diversity. They are critically endangered, so that was to be expected, but it's not that bad. And the final part of my PhD was to look at genetics but look at [00:07:00] hybridization. So although the wild camel and the Bactrian camel are a separate species, they diverge from each other.

[00:07:05] So they separated from each other about a million years ago. So it's a good long time ago. But they can, they can reproduce, they can mate, and they can produce viable offspring. So we wanted to know how much of a problem that was and how much it is through the Park.

[00:07:21] Alex Re: Wow, that's really interesting. I'm imagining that the whole genetic aspect that's really good news because When you have a small population, you can get into that like genetic bottleneck situation where there's just no genetic diversity and then you can have mutations and things like that.

[00:07:39] Anna Jemmett: Absolutely. So we wanted to see how much of a problem that was. It does look like, not with my work, but with previous work, there probably has been some bottlenecks because it is a small population, but it's certainly not as bad as we thought it could be. So yeah.

[00:07:53] Alex Re: That's great to hear. Genetic bottlenecks are basically when a population's size shrinks a lot, and [00:08:00] because of that, there's not a lot of differences in each individual's DNA. This could be a big problem because if they all have similar DNA, it's easy to pass down genetic diseases and harmful mutations to the next generation.

[00:08:14] Now, camels didn't always live in a desert environment. We'll hear about that right after the break.

[00:08:34] Today, I wanna give a shout out to Manny from New Jersey. His favorite animal is a Peregrine falcon. Did you know that Peregrine falcons are the fastest animal in the world? Yep. Faster than a cheetah. When they dive in the air. They can go over 240 miles per hour. Okay, now back to the interview.[00:09:00]

[00:09:06] Anna Jemmett: So, yeah, the ancestors of all modern day camelids actually evolved in North America. So camels come from North America. So the proto camel evolved in North America about 45 million years ago. And so from that. initial camel species that came out. About 20 species groups evolved and disappeared over the following million years or so.

[00:09:26] So most of those were wiped out during the megafaunal extinction when we lost a lot of our very large mammals. But the current evidence suggests that Paracamelus, which was a big arctic camel, lived in the arctic and then migrated across the Bering land bridge, which is the ancestor of all our modern day old world camels, we call them.

[00:09:45] So the dromedary, the Bactrian and the wild camel, and the ancestor of the Lamalini, which is our alpaca, guanaco, vicuna and llama. They, it traveled down into South America. So that's why we don't have any left in North [00:10:00] America, but the ancestors, we always joke about they migrated. They migrated out of the nice stuff and went directly into the deserts in Europe and Asia and into the mountains of South America, so they know how to give themselves a hard time.

[00:10:14] Alex Re: It's an interesting move, definitely.

[00:10:16] Anna Jemmett: Yeah, they like extremes, do the camelids.

[00:10:20] Alex Re: Yes, and I think we'll, we'll talk about that in a little bit too. And there's that age old myth that camels store water in their humps. We know that that's not the case, but what's the actual purpose of their humps?

[00:10:33] Anna Jemmett: Yeah, so it's, it's like you said, it's a myth.

[00:10:36] It's not true, but it is close. So camels actually store fat in their hubs. And when the body breaks down fat, it produces water and energy. So it's actually way better than just storing water. Not only do you have access. In your body to water, but you also get energy from it too.

[00:10:52] Alex Re: That's, that's really interesting.

[00:10:54] And so being a desert species, camels obviously have to specifically [00:11:00] be adapted to deal with water shortages. You talked about the humps and there are there other adaptations that they possess that help them survive in a harsh environment?

[00:11:10] Anna Jemmett: Yeah. So camels are actually perfect for living in harsh environments.

[00:11:14] And I did joke before about they've moved from a nice area to the harshest. environments in the world, but they kind of have and, and everything about it is adapted for surviving in an extreme environment. So you might look at a camel and think what an odd looking creature, but it's oddness is because of these adaptations for surviving in very harsh environments.

[00:11:33] So as well as the humps that allow it to get energy and water, it's also got great big feet for spreading its weight across the sand. It's got lovely long eyelashes, which act as kind of goggles against sand. They've got a prehensile lip, so it's split in the middle for eating all these really tough desert plants.

[00:11:51] It's got long legs and a round body, but the round body stores fat on it as well for the reasons we said before, and the long legs keep it [00:12:00] out of the hottest weather. And also, the Bactrian camel and the wild camel, although they live in deserts, they're actually cold deserts, so it's good for walking through the snow as well.

[00:12:09] They're quite hairy, especially these cold desert living ones, to keep them warm. They have nostrils that can close to keep the sand out and they also have these special nasal cavities which moisten the air on their way in and also trap moisture going out, so retaining as much moisture as possible.

[00:12:27] They've got red blood cells that are oval and not round like in other mammals and this allows it to flow quicker in a dehydrated state. Also when they go to the toilet their urine is more concentrated than in other mammals so they don't lose water as much and the dung they produce is dry. This dry dung was very important for me and very good in my project because all my genetic samples were taken from poo samples.

[00:12:52] And a really good way of storing DNA is to keep it dry and salty. So the camels were the perfect species for that. [00:13:00] They also have adapted kidneys and intestines, which retain water much better. In fact, they can, camels can tolerate water loss. to about 30 percent of its body weight. Most other mammals die if they lose 15%, so it's like double what other animals can do.

[00:13:15] The wild camel in particular can drink salt water, so at a higher concentration than the sea. So yeah, everything about them is just perfect for surviving in harsh extremes.

[00:13:25] Alex Re: Wow, every aspect of them pretty much is, is really well adapted to that harsh environment. That's amazing. And can you share an experience that you've had working with camels that has inspired the work that you're doing today?

[00:13:39] Anna Jemmett: I've been really lucky and was able to travel to Mongolia to do a lot of my PhD research. And one memory that sticks out for me really make me think I really want to continue doing this was the first time I saw an actual wild camel in the wild. Um, so as we've just spoken about, it's such an extreme environment that it lives in, um, to be able to travel out there [00:14:00] was just amazing.

[00:14:00] And then to see this creature that there's less than a thousand left in its natural environment, which is this beautiful desert landscape. Um, and this thing is so good at surviving in it. I just, yeah, was stunned and just thought this is, we have to keep this animal. We can't let it go.

[00:14:16] Alex Re: Yeah, it must be such a surreal experience because people think of deserts as just like barren wastelands.

[00:14:23] And here you have this huge mammal just smack dab in the middle of it.

[00:14:29] Anna Jemmett: Absolutely. Exactly. This enormous creature just living out there on hardly any water and yeah, tough spiky plants.

[00:14:38] Alex Re: Yeah, absolutely. And why are camels important to the ecosystems that they inhabit?

[00:14:45] Anna Jemmett: So the wild camel in particular is classed as an umbrella species, so it needs such a vast area to live in because of the lack of water, the lack of plants, it needs to travel long distances to find what it needs to survive.

[00:14:57] So to protect the camel, you need to [00:15:00] protect vast areas of this Gobi Desert habitat. Which itself is home to lots of other endangered species. So there's the snow leopard, there's the Gobi bear, there's, um, gazelle species, lots of different birds and also endemic plant species. So if you protect the camel, you need to protect vast areas of habitat of other species.

[00:15:18] So it's super important in protecting the Gobi desert as a whole.

[00:15:22] Alex Re: What are some of the biggest problems that these wild camels are facing today? You mentioned that they're critically endangered.

[00:15:29] Anna Jemmett: So the biggest problem that will impact wild camels today is going to be climate change. So as the climate is changing, there is increased desertification in the Gobi, so things are getting drier and there's less water available for them.

[00:15:43] As well as that, there's habitat encroachment from people. So as As it's getting drier there, um, the local people are less able to graze their species in, in the areas they have, so they're kind of coming further into the national park. With this encroachment of [00:16:00] livestock, then you're getting problems like disease and increased hybridization.

[00:16:04] Um, so there'll be lots of things together, uh, that are, are the biggest threats, but climate change will be the biggest one to them.

[00:16:11] Alex Re: Yeah, absolutely. And I've done a lot of interviews, and most of them, when I ask this question, it always comes down to climate change, because these animals were not adapted to be living in changing environments, and the climate is changing so quickly.

[00:16:27] They can't catch up.

[00:16:29] Anna Jemmett: Absolutely. Yeah. It's, it's a big problem for everything when you've got these species that are so adapted to where they live and then you're making their, where they live change, it makes it very difficult for them.

[00:16:40] Alex Re: How can the average person help wild camel populations?

[00:16:45] Anna Jemmett: I think that the average person can help wild camel populations, first of all, just by knowing that they exist and educating other people that they exist.

[00:16:53] So, so few people know that there is a wild camel. It's a truly separate species from the domestic bactrian. [00:17:00] It's our last species of old world camelid that is truly wild. So just knowing that it exists and, and telling other people that it exists, lets its plight be, you know, sent to more people, more people know about it.

[00:17:12] If more people are talking about its plight, then more people are possibly talking about climate change. And, and if we can do that, we can maybe influence decision makers on how they can make a difference for all of our species. So. I think knowing that it's there and that it's important and that it needs protected would be the thing that most people could, the average person could do.

[00:17:30] Alex Re: Yeah, definitely. So we need to spread the word about wild camels. Tell everybody, you know, about them. Yeah, everyone. And what does the future look like for the wild camel protection foundation?

[00:17:43] Anna Jemmett: I've just completed this PhD research, and so we know a bit more about the species, which is good. So we're putting together a management plan for the species for the future.

[00:17:52] I'm sure your other guests say as well, the more answers we have to questions, the more questions we then have. So we want to increase the amount of research that we're doing [00:18:00] on the species and understand really what it is we need to do to save it. So going forward, we want to carry on our research. We also are currently building a second breeding center.

[00:18:11] So this Captive sites that we have, it's almost at capacity and also to be able to breed more, we need to have a second, a second site. So that's being built. So in the next year or so, we should be able to move camels to that site and increase the breeding program. So that's our immediate goal is to work on that.

[00:18:29] Alex Re: That's, that's amazing. And, and I thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. I really appreciate it. I learned so much. Thanks again for coming on.

[00:18:38] Anna Jemmett: Thank you for letting me talk about camels and yeah, um, increasing people's awareness of the species. So I've had a really nice time. Thank you.

[00:18:47] Alex Re: I want to thank Anna for such an amazing interview.

[00:18:50] Wild camels desperately need our help. Even animals built to survive in the most extreme environments will feel the effects of climate [00:19:00] change. So keep spreading awareness about these amazing creatures. And if you want to help, you should check out the Wild Camel Protection Foundation. The Zoological Society of London and the Wildlife Foundation.

[00:19:14] Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with me as we explored the world of camels. You can find the sources that we use for this podcast and links to organizations that we reference at onwildlife.org. You can also email us with any questions at On Wildlife dot podcast@gmail.com. And you can follow us on Instagram at on underscore wildlife or on TikTok at on wildlife.

[00:19:40] And don't forget to tune in next month for another awesome episode. And that's on wildlife.

[00:19:51] Jess Avellino: You've been listening to on wildlife with Alex Re. On Wildlife provides general educational information on various topics as a public service, which should not be [00:20:00] construed as professional, financial, real estate, tax, or legal advice. These are our personal opinions only. Please refer to our full disclaimer policy on our website for full details.