Koalas

Alex Re

Hello, welcome to on wildlife. I'm your host, Alex Re, on this podcast, we bring the wild to you. We take you on a journey into the life of a different animal every week. And I guarantee you you're gonna come out of here knowing more about your favorite animal than you did before. I'm so pumped for this week's episode because I got to sit down with Deborah to Bart, the head of the Australian koala foundation. So get ready because we're heading down to Australia to talk about koalas.

Unknown Speaker

So koalas are unique because they're only found in Australia. They grow to be a little under three feet tall, and they can weigh over 30 pounds. Even though they're called koala bears, they're not actually bears. They're marsupials. Some other animals that are marsupials are kangaroos and possums. They all keep their young in pouches to help them develop. That's what makes them a marsupial. And this makes it interesting because koalas are only pregnant with their young for 35 days. They give birth and the baby that's called a Joey has to climb from the birth canal into their pouch. koalas spend most of their time in trees, and they have a few adaptations that give them an advantage there. For example, they have opposable thumbs on their front paws, which helped them grip onto trees. And they also have really sharp claws, which also helped with climbing. And even though they seem lazy, they actually have really strong arms and legs. And that helps them with climbing as well. You'll notice something really weird. If you look at their paws, two of their toes are actually fused together. This is meant for grooming purposes, and it helps them keep their fur clean. And just when you thought koalas weren't unique enough, they also have their own fingerprints just like people. And they spend around 20 hours a day sleeping, and the rest of their time usually goes to eating. They're herbivores, so they only eat plants. And specifically, they usually only eat one type of plant, the eucalyptus plant. So koalas are pretty picky about the plants that they eat. There are over 600 different species of eucalyptus, but koalas will only eat around 60 species. And the eucalyptus is really interesting because it's actually poisonous to most other organisms. And in my interview with Deborah, we're going to touch upon how koalas have adapted to digest these plants. And they don't drink much water because they get most of their water from the leaves of the plant quality are actually really sharp. And this is because they have to spend a lot of their time grinding down those leaves. And because Eucalyptus is poisonous, their teeth were down really easily. Sometimes scientists can predict how long koalas will live just by looking at their teeth. And there have also been studies that show that male koalas that have worn down teeth a little bit but not too much are able to reproduce with females more frequently. And now I want to talk about koala census because they don't have the best vision. But they do have some other really strong senses that are keys to their survival. First of all, they have really good hearing. You can just tell this by looking at how large their ears are compared to their head. Sometimes koalas can live far away from each other, so their sense of hearing can come in handy when they're trying to communicate with other individuals. The most common sound that these animals make is called the bellow. It's really loud and males can bellow to show dominance. They also have a great sense of smell, which can be used in a lot of different ways. Male koalas have scent glands on their chest that they rub against a tree. And this could be a way for the males to mark their territory. Another way that they can use their sense of smell is to determine which leaves they can eat. Because Eucalyptus is so poisonous, koalas can smell the leaf before they eat it to see how toxic it is. Okay, we're gonna take a break. And when we get back, I'm sitting down with Deborah to Bart to talk about koalas and Australian wildlife in general. You don't want to miss it.

Unknown Speaker

Time for a trivia question. Here's an open ended one for you. Why do leaves change their color in the fall?

Unknown Speaker

The answer is they stopped making chlorophyll which is found in the chloroplast of a plant cell and helps absorb sunlight to do photosynthesis. chlorophyll is what gives the plants their green color. So when they stop making it the leaves lose their pigmentation.

Unknown Speaker

Okay, so we're back. I hope you enjoy my interview with Deborah. Hi, Deborah. How are you?

Deborah Tabart

I'm well, thanks, Alex.

Alex Re

Good. I'm really happy to have you on the podcast. And I really can't wait to hear what you have to say about koalas. So first, just tell us a little bit about yourself and how you became interested in koalas?

Deborah Tabart

Well, I

got approached by the board of the Australian qualification in 1987, who said that they wanted someone like me to join them, they were only two years old. There were $17,000 in the bank 89 members, some of whom were Americans. So I started in February of 88. But you could not do this job for 32 years, which I have, unless you absolutely love the environment. And like I love all creatures, great and small. So the koalas, I am thrilled to be a koala woman, you know, that's over the years people go, Oh, you're that koala woman. So I'm happy to have that. You know, it probably wouldn't be as nice to be the one that woman but yeah, so I think the qual is such a fantastic species to really gauge people as we know. So I just love coming to work every day, even after all this time. And I think it's taken me that long to understand a lot about the animal, but also the problems, and then the solutions. So it's it's been a great journey.

Unknown Speaker

That's, that's great. And can you talk a little bit more about the Australian koala foundation? And kind of your mission there?

Unknown Speaker

Yep. So when I first got my job, you know, I was just told raise money. And we were going to sort of fund universities and stuff like that, which we did. And so raising money for koalas was pretty simple. We, you know, we, you're too young to remember a man called Ken dime, but he used to make these beautiful t shirts. And he Duke was on them. And so I went to him and said, Can you give me some money? You know, and he gave me $10,000, you know, so it was like that $2 here $5. And running a charity sort of funny in a way. But what happened, and we started to raise money, and we started to fund universities. But what would happen, and you could imagine that Australia is like a huge like America. So koala habitat goes basically from Vancouver, to the Mexican border, you know, and almost like the size of California, and I know Oregon, it's a huge landscape is 1.5 million square kilometers. Enormous. So. So when you're trying to protect that match, you can imagine every single person like in LA, so Deborah, you got to come and say these qualities or San Diego or Oregon and you go right off, you know, so. So then I started to realize that it isn't just a scientific document. It's about cars and dogs and roads and disease and cutting down trees. It's so complicated. So I'd only been in the job about four years, when I suddenly said, we have to have maps, we have to have a map of Australia that says this is koala habitat, and this isn't. And then we had to put sort of all the cities over it. So if you can imagine, California and Washington State, all that sort of stuff. From that distance, we now have maps. And I thought it would take like two years to do that it took 23 years, oh my god, that's getting $15 million cheaper. So those maps, you know, in America, we want to Smithsonian middle for those maps in 1998. So, and those maps are pretty accurate. So now when a development or a mine or coal mine or road, you can actually sort of understand the implications by using those maps and, and on our website, you can actually have a look at them. And so one of the greatest achievements for the foundation. So then between 1988 and now, then people ask me come to this part of the country, come here, come and have a look. So I have driven pretty much this whole landscape over those 32 years. So I've just seen it all trees coming down. Dogs kill them, then they're starving to death, then a road goes through is pretty tough stuff. And then also I've worked out that it's legal, you know, the environment laws are just not strong enough. And even if they have been strong enough, then you have some politicians who come in and go, I don't like those laws. I'm getting rid of them. You know, I'm gonna go and do this now. And so I'm proud The stage of my life where I'm committed to bigger laws, not just Australian laws, but I want to see international laws that says, All creatures on this planet need to be protected. Like we have, you know, crimes against humanity. There should be crimes against creatures great and small. So that's my bigger picture goal. But on the way, I've had an awful lot of koalas teach me a lot, you know, yeah, because it's amazing when you wind them in the bush and the other animals. I was in the bush for the last two days. So

Deborah Tabart

I've had a great time.

Unknown Speaker

That does sound really amazing. And you guys, obviously are doing such awesome work. So now, let's start talking a little bit more about koalas. So yeah, koalas are known to spend a lot of their time in the trees. So what features Do they have that kind of allow them to stay up there for so long?

Deborah Tabart

Yeah. Well, like all species, you know, they're adapted over millions of years. And they've established this ecological niche up in the in the hydrate so and they this unbelievably unpalatable diet same as the Panda, Panda. It's bamboo, you know. And then the quad is two, two, but what our research has shown and looking the first couple of years, you know, while I was starting to figure it out, we radio tracked 15 koalas, and it was fascinating. And normally scientists go, we're not going to name these animals in and people like Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall, were really the first scientists who said, I'm going to make these animals real, you know, call them names, instead of just numbers and become sort of like a scientific thing. So on this site, there were 15 animals, and there was one called, we called him at Arnie Schwarzenegger because of his big, strong in whatever. And so we watched how he interacted with all the females and stuff like that. So it looked like he's dead. So the first koala was named 501, because that was his radio frequency. And he was a very old koala. And then we call him Levi for after the jeans, and I was hoping they might give me some money, you know, because, believe it anyway, 501 is dear in my heart. And so if you can imagine a piece of bush bit of forest, and he is the head, man. And then there's females, and there's young males, and there's young babies, and there's Joey's and there's the old boy. So we watched all that. And you could see it's very structured. So Annie, was given that territory by his father, 501. Murray and Lulu, two females, you know, they're all having babies. And we didn't know exactly who the fathers was. But definitely one was on is that Lulu, we actually saw her have a baby to Annie, Joey. And then she keeps that very close to her, she stays in the trees and the boys come to her basically. But we did watch this female swim across the river. And then she had went to bed with Dennis. And then she had a baby to Dennis a joing. And what we could see was that she's got both males completely confused. This is my Joey. So she gets access to both habitats. And in that habitat, there is almost like a five star menu, you know, so there's, there's trees that are really dominant, like, like meat, like a piece of steak, potatoes, vegetables, or salad, some soup, you know? So the koalas have about 10 species that they have to have to keep healthy. And what happens is, when you fragment habitats and cut them down, you might end with them eating up one species like potato, or pays, or just a salad. So as the habitats get diminished, so does their health. So we learned all this from those koalas. And I think of them every day, you know, I just do and so everywhere I go, I can say, you know, we've seen a male there, chances are, he's not going to let a big male anywhere near him. So they'll always be a little female, and then she might have a boyfriend down the road and whatever. So that's what I find fascinating. And I went on one of the islands recently, and we, you know, tracked koalas are just looking for them. And you can almost predict how they're going to be. It's like, that's mom, that's Dad, this is the kids and they're all related.

Unknown Speaker

We're pretty excited. That's really cool. So they kind of have like a very complex social structure between them, which is something you just don't think about.

Unknown Speaker

No, all animals do. Yeah. And this is the thing about us humans were so bloody egocentric because then we just think, Oh, you know, that's koalas Did you know roadkill as they call it in Australia, and you know, but these are families. And so one of the things that Because the biggest thing I had in my career when I was younger, was that everyone said, Oh, you know, she's too passionate. She's too caring about them. But if you don't think of them as the welfare of that family, so you start breaking up family structures, then you have declines. So yeah, it's, and of course, the scientists haven't written this up. So unless it's in the literature, someone like me talking can often be diminished. Because listen to my dog, Charlie's is singing to the ambulance. Anyway. So the thing that makes me cross two is that here, we are saying we want to respect science. But some scientists are so busy gathering the data that they never write it up. So one of the things I'm proud of for the Australian qualification is that we feel to this my PR, Mr. You know, that you were talking to, I communicate this, she writes it up, then people like you can hear it and your podcast, people can hear it, we have to start seeing animals as precious to be protected, to not have any cruelty perpetrated on them. And not that somehow the progress is allowed. And, you know, I know you're in New Jersey, New Jersey, but when I leave New York City on a train, and see how much land that we've already damaged, that is buildings that are empty, it is time for us to start re looking at how we we humans live on this planet and leave the bush alone. If I was the president of the world, I would say not one more tree should go down. I'm sick of people going wild over that's unrealistic. No, it isn't. We've damaged we have done so much damage. And we all have to learn more lightly and live more lightly on this planet.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, and I think that that definitely starts with like, getting that information out there for the public to realize that these are living breathing animals that that are important, just as important as we are. So I that's that's really great. And you were you were talking a little bit about their eating habits. So do they, I they eat a lot of eucalyptus plants? Yep. Right. So and Eucalyptus is kind of toxic to other animals. So So how are they able to digest this? And and why do they?

Unknown Speaker

Did they have an incorrect they've been adapted over millions of years. So you know, all the other animals had different parts of the forest. And so they have a long sequence in which it actually which is like a long digestive tract. So they eat this, but there's about 750 eucalypts in Australia, and the quality's in different parts of the country. So if you can imagine the quality in Victoria, ate like Mexican, the quality of New South Wales ate French, and then the quality in, in Queensland have American food, you know, so that the mums actually go, this is what we ate it so that you can see the Joey's going in the bush. Last week, there was a mum with a baby that was just the size of a tennis ball, basically. And it was just copying its mother picking up the load smelling it, you know, that looks delicious. Eight, eight. If you move that Joey across state borders, they don't do well because they don't know what they're eating. So it's soil type. It's rainfall. And as you go towards the desert, some of the leaves like in places like Queensland, which is rainforests and everything, the leaves look delicious, you feel like I can eat them. But as you go west into the desert lands, the length of like cardboard, so they've obviously been adapted, you know. So, you know, when I try and try and stop coal mines or something like that. They're usually in the desert type places. And so one day I drove out, and there was a koala, just eating this leaf that looked like a piece of cardboard. So, you know, this is the respect again, because everyone goes, Oh, well just move them and put them over here. You know, that's the classic developer, you know, I'm going to build here. I'll move them and that are present. Because I do believe that we can live amongst the environment. You know, I really don't.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, absolutely. I think that we need to really start learning how to adapt to the environments that other animals are already living in, because we don't want to take those habitats away. That's right. Well, okay, so do koalas have any natural predators at all?

Unknown Speaker

Well, I don't when they're Joey's. I think we have go enters Do you know what to go in and looks like it's like a Komodo dragon. So this you know, great big lizard. They will eat them. And then you know, your listeners might like to have a look at that. The cold go enters. And then the rescue was down under, you know, one of those Disney movies. They called one of them, Joanna, Joanna, they go in. And so they're fantastic things. No cars, when, before white settlement, and we've got to remember that the Aboriginal people who lived on this continent have been here for 60,000 years. You know, it's mind numbing, really, isn't it? The, you know, the what man has is only been here since 1788, so about 250 years. And I personally believe there was millions of koalas when we came. And now I reckon there's less than 100,000. And in fact, the American President Hoover did actually stop the importation of first. So between 1890 and 1927, we have the manifests of 8 million koala skins that were sent to London in New York City for the furious. And any my book that's coming out next year, we've got a picture of a lady wearing like a beaver cake, you know, it's a koala cut. So I think they were in large numbers. I think that the Aboriginal people didn't take care of the bush and there was in the bush was, I can't even imagine what our country looked like, when we weren't here. We've done too much damage. And in my view, it's time for us to repair that damage. Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker

And it's interesting to think about, like, what it was like, back before we had kind of settled everything and made it habitable for humans. So a time machine, Alex. Yes. I would love I would love that.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah. Because, you know, when I was starting to, you know, think, look, I don't know what I'm doing here. You know, it's all very well to fund this university is over, I want to go and see people. So I did actually spend a lot of time in America, pretty much the 90s on and off. We have an office in New York City. And in Washington. I spent a lot of time in the West Coast, and looked at the Oregon forests and all those things. So the powerful hours, neither was the there was an owl that was very endangered. I forgotten now. But, you know, it's the same issues. It's like, and those redwoods 90% of the redwoods are gone. Yeah. So you think what the Avenue of the Giants look like when there was 100% of them there. I mean, it's it is it's so humbling. And, and as we destroy the environment, and we encroach on the animals in bats, and you know, COVID-19 came from a bet probably. And Paul little bats are so demonized. I mean, I'm in love with little bats. And I could talk to them at them forever. Because there's so cute. Oh, yeah. So the thing is, we've got to make sure that we live where we live, clean up our act, and let the animals get on with what they do best. And that's to create biodiversity.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, definitely. And so we've been hearing a lot in the news about the Australian wildfires. So So what impact has that had on the koala population?

Unknown Speaker

Well, you know, what, there was just millions of hectares that were burned a bit like California. And you know, we lost 3000 houses in California last 19,000. So we need to put things in perspective. But these were the hottest fires ever. And they were like, hurricanes. They just watched a thing the other night, and you just can't believe how bad it was. Some of the habitats that were burnt, were empty of koalas. So we think less numbers of koalas died. But certainly Kangaroo Island, had a lot of koalas, you know, 10s of 1000s were killed. And I don't think you'll ever stop fires. But the fires are worse because of the fragmentation as they are in your country. I've been to Yellowstone and you know that you have fires there. We Mother Nature is not happy with us. And, and I just feel that all this extreme weather is the UN has basically said, the extreme weather events have doubled in the last 10 years and that they will again in the next 10 years. So I feel really sad that your generation is going to be bearing the brunt of that. So as when my book comes out next year, I want to inspire young ones, you have to understand how serious it is. And find solutions that are not created. There was a group of people in America called the buyer and he is and I really encourage you maybe to interview them. They're out of Colorado, and they said the problems of the future will never be solved by the people who created and I heard that first in 1992 still gives me goosebumps. Yeah, so the thing is, you know, and I'm an elder now, you know, I used to I wanted to stay young forever, but the thing is As elders have to help you guys to understand the complexities and what you can do, because really Mother Nature is so smart, that she will respond accordingly. I really believe if you take the pressure off, that we just relentlessly apply this pressure. We do. And it's shocking.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah. And there have been places where we've sort of enacted change already. And we've seen how Mother Nature responds very well to that change, and the environment can make a comeback. So it's, it's definitely not too late for us to start acting.

Unknown Speaker

I agree. And it's like when they reintroduced the walls, you know, and all of a sudden, you know, they were controlling the deer and then waterways started getting because the deer weren't in there. I mean, when when I say the poor, old wolves demonized in your country, we don't really have that we have dingoes, but nothing like that main predator. It's just a no brainer once you understand it, but we've all got closed minds. And I've met some amazing, you know, farmers in the United States. You know, that I could make everyone laugh. You know, I remember this cattlemen said to me that food is vegetable side food, food eats vegetables. But I think it's fantastic that your generation is becoming vegan and vegetarian and much more respectful of the food we ate, and how the landscapes can be softened and less impact. So our country, we have marsupials, which have really soft pads, so anything with a hoof is not good for our landscape. But of course, you know, we all want to eat meat, we all want to have shape and all those things. So a lot of those industries are not going to be happy about maybe the changes that need to occur. But your generation will force it, because you've got this moral compass of, we don't want to see this cruelty anymore. So I do have a lot of hope, Alex, in a way. And I and that's why I stay in my job because I think the koala is a great flagship for conversations like this. You know, what I've learned from the koalas really gives you a holistic view of things.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah. And I'm glad that you have hope that gives me hope, too. So this is going to be my last question. So we're talking a little bit about just enacting change. So koalas are facing a lot of issues right now. Their populations are kind of dwindling. So what can we do to help? Well,

Unknown Speaker

I'm completely committed to new legislation. So and I copied it from the bald eagle act. So the bald eagle that came in in 1941. And 50 years later, the old vehicle was safe prior to that it was on its way to extinction. So really, and all they said was Doncaster strays down. So our act is that simple. There are a lot of people who don't want that. So we have a koala army. So your people might like to join our qualite army? Yeah, it's a lot of fun. I'm the commander in chief. And I love it, you know, middle of the hallway. And, and so we need people internationally to say you, Australia, you the Australian Government have to protect this species for us, for our grandchildren. Because it's a global thing. And, you know, if you think I'm doing a good job, we don't take any government money. So you can make a donation you can adopt a koala. But most importantly, Alex getting engaged, you know, watching you know, your country going to vote. Everyone's got to get engaged, engaged for the future. And it could be fun. If we all just go this is a dirty, great mess. We have to clean up let's all get to do it to do it. I believe that Mother Nature we're just getting behind us. I really don't.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, absolutely. And I think people don't really recognize the benefits of having all these amazing animals around us and and I want the future generations to be able to observe these in the wild, as well. There's just it's they're breathtaking. So, before you go, where can we find some information about the Australian koala foundation? Well, our

Unknown Speaker

website is safe, the quality calm. I write a diary about once a month where I just say what I feel I'm seeing politically and any my country, the quality army sends out things that you can do. My book is coming out the quality Manifesto. I'd love people to buy that. And, you know, I think we try really hard to show that the koala forests of Australia protect millions of other species. So we've got this fantastic t shirt called the border of the bush, which has got a koala with all these animals intertwined in it. Thinking holistically. We've all got To get off Facebook, we've all got to stop thinking. I don't like that person because they think differently to me. Yeah, we have to expand our minds. Alex, your generation has to expand. One of the things that I can annoy people is that I'm constantly inquisitive, more inquisitiveness? Where do I fit in? How could I make life better? Do I recycle? I am so sick of seeing your generation talking about conservation, but roaming around with a plastic cup. Yeah, you know, take a keepcup all these simple things, simple things, if 7 billion of us did that, then it wouldn't be a simple thing, it would be a massive thing. And so it's personal responsibility, and live it every day, not just one day.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah. And and you definitely brought up an important point about really like, looking at other people's viewpoints and saying, I respect your viewpoint, and I'm going to try to work with you and and we can make a compromise and come up with something together.

Unknown Speaker

I really believe that's true. And, and I've been guilty of this when I was young, it was my way of the highway. And a lot of the time, especially when you're a mum, you know, go to bed, there was a doc. But I think that it is time for discourse. But I also think it's time for action. And I want a koala Protection Act. I am sort of too old in a way to think I can educate the developers or the miners anymore. It's now time to decent laws that says, you have to do this properly. You can't cut corners. And if you the community don't want it. We need laws that says I am allowed to stop you. And American laws are actually pretty good. I learned a lot of what I know, from American lawyers. But you know, some companies just think they're above the law. And they're not.

Unknown Speaker

Yeah, yeah. That's great. Oh, Deborah, thank you so much for coming on today. I'm so glad you were able to share your knowledge about koalas with all of us and and the environment. That was great. And everyone please go check out the Australian koala foundation. So thank you. Thank you, Alex. That interview was so great. And I don't know about you, but it made me want to go out and make some change to help our environment. If you're inspired to help koalas, you should definitely go check out the Australian koala foundation. Also some other organizations that are dedicated to helping koalas and Australian wildlife, our koala conservation Australia Inc. and the Australian wildlife Conservancy. Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with me as we explored the world of koalas. You can find the sources that we used for this podcast and links to organizations that we reference@www.on wildlife.org and that's on wildlife.

Jess Avellino

You've been listening to on wildlife with Alex brought to you every Wednesday.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai