Pigs

[00:00:00] Alex Re: Hello, welcome to On Wildlife. I'm your host, Alex Re. On this podcast, we bring the wild to you. We take you on a journey into the life of a different animal every week. And I guarantee you, you're going to come out of here knowing more about your favorite animal than you did before. Today, we're going to be talking about an animal that's known for its enormous appetite.

[00:00:24] And even though this mammal is closely tied to humans, there's so many things that are misconstrued about them. We're in luck today because I got to talk with our special guest, Chris Evers, who is the founder and director of Animal Embassy. He's worked to rehabilitate tons of animals of all shapes and sizes, and educate people about the mistreatment of animals in captivity, as well as environmental issues.

[00:00:51] The animal that we're talking about today is one of the animals that helps him convey those important messages. So let's take a trip to the farm to talk about Pigs.

[00:01:09] Our

[00:01:18] guest, Chris, has spent 36 years working with animals in one way or another. He's been the director of nature camps, a volunteer at his local nature center, and has even worked as an Alaskan fishing captain. He truly has a passion for conservation and for the proper treatment of domesticated animals. And speaking of, the specific breed of pig that we're talking about today is called the Kunikuni, a domesticated pig from New Zealand.

[00:01:47] Chris has this specific breed of pig, who he'll share a bunch of interesting stories about during today's episode. So let's get into the interview. Hi Chris, how are you doing? I'm doing very well. And how are you today? I'm great. Thanks so much for coming on to the podcast. I'd love to get some information on how you first knew that you wanted to start working with animals and kind of your journey to where you are now.

[00:02:14] Chris Evers: Sure. So it's been a long journey, but it started early. You know, my earliest memories are out on Long Island where I was born and spent the first three years of my life. I was three years old, but I remember it vividly to this day. And I remember going with my uncle Teddy, uh, who was a veteran down to that sump and feeding the ducks and catching tadpoles.

[00:02:35] And we both loved nature. So that's where I see the beginning, my beginning, and it didn't stop. My love of life and my pursuit of life never waned. It only grew. The yellow spotted salamander is my logo. I saved one on Seven Settlers Trail in Darien, Connecticut when I was three. And it's partially because it's the first creature that I ever saved.

[00:03:01] Partially because it's local and so too are we all. And then partially because yellow spots draw attention and I don't want to fade into the background. I don't want to pick something that has Cryptic coloration that melts into the background. I want to stand out as does the yellow spotted salamander.

[00:03:20] And then lastly, it's, it's great because the yellow spotted salamander is an amphibian and amphibians go through a metamorphosis. And that is what I want to help. People to do with regards to their attitude towards wildlife and their approach towards community. I want to help kids to really want to make a change and do something about it, take action.

[00:03:47] So the yellow spotted Salomon represents change. My programs are laced with messages that help kids to not only understand the beauty of life and, and, and the importance of it, but also how we can mimic it. Is going on in nature every day. Animals are giving back to the environment. Animals are giving back to their community and they have no idea that they are.

[00:04:14] And all of my other ambassadors are helping me get kids to appreciate life and then want to do something to preserve them.

[00:04:19] Alex Re: That's really awesome. And I love that message that you're sending, especially to kids, to really get them loving nature from a young age, because I think that's just so important for people to care about conservation later on in life, too.

[00:04:34] And you already talked a little bit about the organization that you founded, Animal Embassy. Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

[00:04:41] Chris Evers: Sure. So, uh, Animal Embassy really started back when I was in high school, really. And I say that because I started rescuing and adopting exotic animals in high school.

[00:04:52] The problem that Animal Embassy addressed in the beginning for me, was that too many people were getting exotic animals without understanding how to properly care for them. And it doesn't just happen with exotic animals. People impulse buy when they buy pets. We don't typically impulse buy when we buy a car, when we buy a bicycle, when we buy a computer, we research it.

[00:05:19] We, we find out as much as we can about it, but when people get pets, they often buy on impulse. I ask kids all the time, okay, kids raise your hand if you have a pet and I see 10 hands go up. All right. What do you have? I have a dog. Okay, cool. What kind of dog? They're able to tell me about their dog, what kind of breed it is.

[00:05:39] But then we get to, Frog. Oh, you have a frog. Interesting. Okay. What kind of frog do you have? I don't know. Okay. Next. Okay. You have a lizard. What kind of lizard do you have? A bearded dragon. Oh, okay. Good. You do know what kind it is. Where does it come from? I don't know. So, this is typical. I ask these questions regularly, and I regularly am disappointed at the lack of knowledge that children have of the exotic animals that they've brought into their home.

[00:06:07] This is not a new problem. Most people don't know the animal well enough to know if it's appropriate. How much is it going to cost? How much space is it going to occupy? Uh, what is the full breadth and depth of its diet? What temperature does it need at night? What temperature does it need during the day?

[00:06:25] But oftentimes, that's when the animal gets dumped on the nature center. That's when the animal gets dumped on, on Animal Embassy or some other rescuer because they don't want to pay the money that it's now going to take to fix what they did to that poor animal. So, that's why I created Animal Embassy.

[00:06:45] Because of this business that exists around the sale of animals. You're gonna bring a life into your life, you should know what you're doing before you bring it into your life. And I would like to see people, and I promote this on my program, to stop using the word pet. Because I think that the pet trade has unfortunately turned living creatures into objects.

[00:07:10] Objects that are bought and sold with little regard to the animal, the individual, and the place where that individual is Should be in the community that that individual would be a part of and that individual would be playing a functional role in that community. And this is the way I use these animals now as ambassadors.

[00:07:31] So I'll throw it back to you.

[00:07:32] Alex Re: Yeah, definitely. And in general, let's just talk about pigs. Can you just tell me a little bit more about your experience with pigs and kind of their personalities?

[00:07:42] Chris Evers: Yep, I was working at Soundwaters, graduated college many years later, and I was working at Soundwaters Environmental Organization in Stanford, Connecticut, running the Watershed Ecology Program, and I wanted to bring my watershed ecology kids up to the farm because I wanted them to experience the farm, really experience the farm.

[00:08:02] And then, how are we contributing to this system, positive and negative? So I took them to the sewage treatment plant, I took them to the power plant, I took them to the farm. So this is about how are we using it, and how is that then affecting it? And one of the things I loved about the farm was they have a created wetland at the base of it.

[00:08:20] So that the runoff, which has, you know, A lot of nutrients which are going to get into that stream, which get into that pond, which leave that pond and go into that stream and go down Long Island Sound, and then cause plankton blooms in Long Island Sound, which leads to hypoxia, which you may know all of this, these kids didn't.

[00:08:38] But they did after I was done with them because I got them in it. I got them physically in it. They were scooping poop from the farm. They were feeding the pigs on the farm and they had big pigs. And I wanted them to understand where's that pig waste going? Because that is a by product of the pork industry.

[00:09:00] And there's only three pigs here. Imagine what it's like with those commercial farms. The sheer numbers of animals that, that, that we're raising in these situations, how are they dealing with that waste? I doubt they're creating wetlands. And if they did, they're massive. It's like the Amazon, you know? So, anyway, that was my first experience with pigs.

[00:09:25] Pigs get very depressed about missing their human or their pig companion. They're so emotional, they're sensitive. I try to give names to my animals that mean something, like Kuni Kuni, for example. Kuni Kuni is the breed. K U N E, K U N E is the breed. And it is the breed of the Maori people of New Zealand.

[00:09:51] And if you're not familiar, are you familiar with the Maori people by chance? Because a lot of people are not. So the Maori people, um, are Polynesian people that made it to New Zealand, and inhabited New Zealand. So I think they are the first inhabitants. They did not bring pigs with them, and pigs are not native to New Zealand.

[00:10:09] So, how the Maori got the pigs from the sealers, or the whalers, or the pirates, I don't know for sure, uh, but they're pretty tough people. And the kids, there's an easy connection with kids because the movie Moana depicts the Maori people in cartoon form. So, if you're familiar with that movie Moana, then you have some familiarity with the Maori people, anyone, and you know a Maori word.

[00:10:35] Pua. Pua is the name of the pig, and just like Simba in The Lion King means lion, That was embedded into that movie. Most of those animals names have a meaning, if not all. Pua means pig, in Maori. And kunikuni, K U N E, K U N E, is the breed name. And it means, in Maori, fat. And round.

[00:11:01] Alex Re: That's great. And can you talk a little bit more about the intelligence of pigs and how it compares to other animals and what have you observed from your first hand experiences with that?

[00:11:14] Chris Evers: Yeah, so I can comment about what I've read and what I've been told that pigs are perpetual toddlers. That was backed up by reading that I did that said that pigs can achieve a Three year old's intelligence. Somebody just today told me that a pig can achieve a two year old's intelligence. I don't know how any of these people are assessing this to the point that they can say that pigs are more intelligent than dogs, but I assume that in labs, they have tests that may or may not be effective.

[00:11:43] I've not reviewed them. I've not seen peer reviews, but what I've been told is pigs have the intelligence of a two year old or a three year old. That doesn't sit well with me because I don't often like that kind of comparison. I want to take the individual as an individual, right? And even within humans, obviously you have some that are considered not very intelligent and others that are considered extremely intelligent, right?

[00:12:09] Right? I'm not looking at each one of them and trying to make a determination about Where do you lie in that spectrum, right? I'm going to accept them for who they are and work with them the way I feel I need to. I'm going to adapt to the situation and to the individual that I'm working with or talking with or interacting with.

[00:12:27] Um, I'm certainly not going to talk down to anybody or be condescending to anyone, but this is the way I work with humans. This is the way I work with. Animals. It's a relationship based on respect and appreciation. So, I need to learn where is this animal at? And that matters based on how were they treated?

[00:12:48] How were they fed? How has their brain developed? A farm pig and a pet pig have been exposed to a very different life. And their brains are not going to be developed in the same way. So if I rescue a pig that's spent its life on the farm and has been exposed to nothing, and I put them against my pig, who goes to Maine on vacation, and eats lobster rolls and has strawberry shortcake, and loves long walks on the beach, and goes to Manhattan, and can stroll down the streets of Manhattan, and be perfectly comfortable wagging his little tail, there's no comparison.

[00:13:21] Right? You watch the ducks on the farm. They all go in the same direction. They all move with the crew. They're all going towards what? Food and water, food and water, food and water. That's all they know. So how much does their brain develop? If a child isn't exposed to life, then the child will not be well developed mentally.

[00:13:43] So it matters what is the animal exposed to. There are plenty of people that would say that a pig is more intelligent than a dog. I have a dog and I have a pig. They're both intelligent and they think differently from each other. One is food driven. The other is driven by loyalty.

[00:14:03] Can you guess which one is which?

[00:14:04] Alex Re: I feel like I'm going to get it wrong, but I feel like the pig would be driven by food. Correct.

[00:14:11] Chris Evers: And the German Shepherd is loyal, almost, to a fault. He would disagree. He thinks he's perfect. He's a German Shepherd. But Maku is, is loyal to Rebecca, my wife. He loves me, I have no doubt about it, but he is loyal to her.

[00:14:31] God, if she's not around, he is wondering, when is she coming back? He rarely is going to, he won't relax until she comes home. That's loyalty. My pig is going to eat, and then he's going to sleep. And then he's gonna take a drink of water, and then he's gonna lay down in the pool. Maku, the shepherd, would forego.

[00:14:50] I had to make sure that he came in this house today because it was so hot outside. But what is he doing? Waiting for his mommy outside. That's the dog. What's the pig doing? He's in his bed, in the air conditioning. You know, perfectly comfy cozy. So I know that Cooney is attached to me. There's no doubt about it.

[00:15:10] As I said before, they're emotional and they are sensitive, but they're not loyalty driven like a dog is. I have a quote by Churchill, which I think would be appropriate to read at this time. Winston Churchill once said, I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals.

[00:15:31] That's Winston Churchill.

[00:15:32] Alex Re: That's a really interesting quote. I think so too. We've got plenty more to hear from Chris, but first, let's take a quick break.

[00:15:52] Time for today's trivia question. What kind of animal is an axolotl?

[00:16:10] The answer is a salamander. If you said amphibian, you would also be correct. Salamanders and frogs are some examples of amphibians.

[00:16:32] I know you talked about this before we started recording, but I'd love for Kunikuni to come in and kind of show us some of his vocalizations, because I wanted to talk about that and how they communicate with each other.

[00:16:45] Chris Evers: Please. Yeah. And then, um, yeah. How they communicate with, with us, because he, as, as Churchill said.

[00:16:53] He treats me like a pig. So he talks to me like a pig. So I have to then try to suss What is he saying? And so, I've gotten pretty good at it. But what I've read is that there are over 20 vocalizations that have been sort of interpreted from pigs. 20 different vocalizations ranging from wanting food, to calling for mates, to expressing discontent, to expressing pleasure, but, but 20 different vocalizations that have been documented.

[00:17:25] And we have heard any number of vocalizations. Is it 20? I'm not sure, but we hear a lot. And I think we got a pretty good handle on what they mean. So I expect when I bring Kuni in that I'm going to get a greeting from him. And it is extremely rewarding when you have not I've seen Cooney for a while and it could just be that you were out for a couple hours, you know, but it could be that we went away and we've been gone for a week, you know, and Cooney has been cared for by people that he knows, you know, and, and, and he's got visitors and he's got friends, but it's not us.

[00:18:00] And his connection is definitely strongest to me. And then second to Rebecca. And so when we come home, he will come running up the field. Just so excited you, you, you have never gotten a better greeting from anyone in your life as, as we get from this pig . Let me go get him. See, and he's probably gonna be silent now when he comes in.

[00:18:23] Uh, but I, I doubt it. We'll, we'll see. Gimme, gimme just a minute.

[00:18:29] Come, come, come here. Come here. Come here, come. Come here. Come here. I I. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come here. Come here.

[00:18:45] Boy. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Sit. Boy, boy. So I'm just giving him some peach. When you sit, sit, sit, sit. I also know that the listeners are not going to be seeing this.

[00:19:01] You'll just be hearing it. So what you're hearing is Kuni Kuni. Kuni Kuni is a Kuni Kuni pig, and he was just vocalizing, which we're just talking about, the different vocalizations of pigs. And I rescue animals, that's what I do. And I rescued this pig from a pork production farm in Pennsylvania, and then learned about pigs, largely through this one.

[00:19:23] So we have gotten to know Kunis, Repertoire of noises, and it goes well beyond oink. I've never heard him say anything that actually resembles oink. Nice catch. But, similarly, we teach kids that frogs say ribbit. We got seven species of frog in this area, and not a single one of them have ever oinked.

[00:19:43] Uttered the words rivet. So this guy's got high pitched sounds that he makes, which often are distress or anxiety, but he also makes some high pitched kind of squeaks when, when he's face to face with us, and, and kind of in the morning when he's just waking up, and it's kind of very sweet, like you really like the sound, because it's, it's kind of comforting.

[00:20:05] He wants to snuggle, and, and, and so it's clear that, that, that noise is when he's in that snuggle mode. And when I say snuggle, pigs are snugglers. When pigs sleep, they want to be touching another pig, whether it's their foot or their butts, but oftentimes it's their noses. I don't know if you just saw, he just put his little hoof up when he, when he sat.

[00:20:28] I didn't teach him that. I taught him to sit and he learned that within an hour of coming home from the Farm where he was living on a pork production farm. They were not socializing him there. They were not training him there. He learned to sit within, I would say a half hour of coming home. He was. What, six months old?

[00:20:46] Something like that. I mean, he was a baby. So talk about intelligence, right? He never pooped in the house, not once. And that you can read too, that's said all over the place, that pigs don't want to poop where they sleep. And then potty training, that was a little tougher. We did have to potty train him. We used diapers like you would on an old dog, a senior dog.

[00:21:06] And then as soon as we saw him doing his little pee wee dance, I take him outside, I put him outside, and even if he had started peeing, he quickly got the idea that, oh. I gotta do this outside. So that was pretty quick. So, so, with regards to the vocalizations, I think I, I, Hi buddy, hi, yes I can, come here, come here, come, climb, I can see you, now, come, climb up here.

[00:21:28] Come here, I'll give you the last bit. Climb, climb, climb, climb, good boy. So, I'm giving Kuni now the peel. When I give them the peel in front of kids, they often times say, that's gross. And I say, no, it's not gross for him. And my tortoises too. They eat the peel, whether they like the taste or not. I can't say, but they eat it.

[00:21:47] So if they're eating it, they're eating it for a reason. One of the things that I have absolutely learned from having Kuni is that pigs do not eat anything and everything, which is what a lot of people believe. Cooney was with me at a birthday party one time, and it was during the pandemic, and we were doing all outdoor stuff.

[00:22:07] And so, it was cold outside, and they had a fire going, and they were roasting marshmallows. So I was like, cool, let's see if Cooney wants a marshmallow, right? I thought he would love it, because he loves sugar, he loves fruit, that's like his favorite. So when I go out with him, I always bring fruit. Because the one stereotype that I think actually fits, is they eat like a pig one.

[00:22:27] Because they do. And this is part of the problem with having one as a pet, and I want to be sure that I get some of this out there through this, because I don't want people to meet Kuni and decide, I'm getting a pig. And if they do decide they're getting a pig because they met Kuni It's because they have now believed they've learned enough that they can actually do this the right way.

[00:22:49] This is not my pet. I want to be clear about that. I rescue animals. This is my job. I am dedicated to this animal. Why does this work? I don't have another pig. I'm the other pig. I'm the other pig, right? Most people don't have another dog. They are the other dog, right? So people often ask me, oh, well, pigs are social.

[00:23:10] I'm like, do you have a dog? You're like, yes. How many dogs do you have? One. What's the difference? There isn't one, right? If you have a dog and you don't have another dog, you better be there for your dog. Because they're social animals that live in packs. Well, pigs, pigs, pigs. They aren't social like dogs, but they are social, but there's a lot more brute force going into things with them.

[00:23:36] You know, it's like, I want that. No, I want that. No, I'm taking that. Right. It isn't, Oh, let's share. Dogs will share. Dogs will share. The pig doesn't share. So the eat like a pig thing, I do agree with that one. The eat anything thing, I don't agree with. And then the dirty one, I don't think there was a question about this, but I would love to bust that myth too.

[00:24:00] People think pigs are filthy. I have not met many animals that are cleaner than pigs. And I don't think it's just my pig. But I provide my pig with the ability to be clean, and he likes it. So he seeks it. If you have pigs on a farm and they don't have a choice about where to go to get wet, then they're all going to go to the same place.

[00:24:26] And what's going to happen to that place? We all know, even from humans, that some child is always going to pee in the pool, and it might not be the child, it might be a grown up. We all know that occasionally a child might poop in the pool, right? This is human behavior. So we can assume that if a lot of pigs are forced to go to the same place, that eventually somebody's going to pee in the pool.

[00:24:55] And so eventually that water is going to be disgusting because it isn't going to be filtered and it isn't going to be changed. Cooney's pool is changed every two days, unless the 60 pound tortoise gets in it, which he did today and he pooped in it. So I had to change it today, whereas I would have probably waited until tomorrow.

[00:25:14] Cause when Cooney gets in it, he doesn't pee in it and he doesn't poop in it, but the tortoise does. So who's the dirty one, the pig or the turtle? Nobody says that tortoises are filthy beasts, but it's the tortoise that pooped in the pool.

[00:25:31] Alex Re: That's, that's a great way to really address that, that misunderstanding that so many people have.

[00:25:37] And I think a lot of what we think about animals has been influenced about how we treat them. And then we view their behaviors when they, when they're in captivity and the way that we've cooped them up. And it's not actually true about animals. It just makes me think about our misconceptions about sloths and how much they sleep, because we were only observing sloths in a zoo.

[00:26:03] So we thought that they slept for pretty much all the day and all the night, but it's not actually true in the wild.

[00:26:12] Chris Evers: Many animals. are behaving as if they were in prison because that's the way they are treated. So, animals need to be mentally and physically engaged to be healthy. And, and, and that's what I do with Kuni, and with Kuni it's much more difficult than with some of my other animals because he is intelligent and social.

[00:26:39] And so, to the people that get pigs as pets, most of them will only get one, and they will treat it like a dog. Unfortunately, it's going to fail in most cases, because they're not dogs. And if you keep giving them what they love, they will get fat. And it's not hard to overfeed a pig, because they absolutely love to eat.

[00:27:05] And so, we We want our animal to be happy, and I think that part of this, unfortunately, gets wrapped up in endorphins. We enjoy seeing someone happy, right? It makes us happy to make them happy. I give my neighbor Mary flowers, Mary smiles, she's 95, it makes me smile. Was it selfish then that I gave Mary flowers?

[00:27:32] Maybe, but not really, right? But, but, but I smile. It makes me happy, right? So, I then might go give Mary flowers again tomorrow because it made me happy today, right? So, if I give Kuni food, he's happy, I'm happy. It triggers, I do believe, the endorphins. And, and so I think that some of it, we get into a, a bad pattern where we want the pig to be happy, or we want our dog to be happy, we give them cookies.

[00:28:01] How many fat dogs, how many fat cats have you seen? There doesn't need to be a pig for us to get into this trap. It's not healthy for the animal. And as you stated, if you're going to study them in captivity, like the sloth, and you're going to try to make judgments based on who they are, And what they need based on their life in captivity, it's not the same as their life in the wild.

[00:28:28] My animals know me extremely well. I don't treat them like wild animals because they are not wild animals. They're stuck in captivity. I want them to be happy in captivity. I want them to be happy with me. And when you come to visit, that's what you will see. I think it's important for us to try to see ourselves at times in, in, in our animals.

[00:28:49] But I think it's also important to recognize that they are not just like us. If the woman that dumped the two leopard tortoises at, uh, Wildlife in Crisis, um, had known that tortoises aren't social creatures, then she probably wouldn't have bought two leopard tortoises, and then she probably wouldn't have dumped two leopard tortoises at Wildlife in Crisis.

[00:29:15] I now have her two leopard tortoises, and you know how badly I needed two leopard tortoises in my life? Not at all. And obviously, neither did she. So why did she buy two? My guess is that they bought two because they thought that one should have a friend. Did those people study leopard tortoises? Did those people know about reptiles?

[00:29:41] It doesn't seem so, but they dropped a whole bunch of money on two very expensive tortoises. So when we've got money and we see that something is for sale, sometimes we just buy it and that's not appropriate when it's alive. You want to buy a car on impulse? Go at it. But are you going to bring a life into your life?

[00:30:04] You should know what you're doing before you do it and know whether it's appropriate. You should, I like what I said before and I've never said it like that. You should know enough to know whether it's appropriate.

[00:30:14] Alex Re: Absolutely.

[00:30:17] Chris Evers: And that requires knowing how long is it going to live and where might you be?

[00:30:21] How much is it going to cost? How much space is it going to need? And where's the nearest vet that might know how to take care of the pet that you've just brought into your life because you've got a plan. For that animal needing to go to the doctor and you better know how much that's going to cost because I'm sick and tired of rescuing animals that people don't want anymore because they're sick, you need to be ready for that and you need to make sure they don't get sick and if they do, well, then you need to fix it.

[00:30:51] But if you don't have the money to fix it. Then you don't have business owning the animal.

[00:30:59] Alex Re: I think that is a really great note to kind of enter a conversation and talk about how can we support animal embassy and what can the average person do to get involved in wildlife conservation in just, uh, supporting animals, whether they're wild or in captivity.

[00:31:19] Chris Evers: Yeah. So to support animal embassy, the best thing that you can do for me is, or us, Is the best thing that you could do, in my opinion, for the earth. Put me to work. Put me to work. I want to teach. It's how I make money. It's also how I fix problems. Or, play my part, right? I can't fix the problem. I can only do what I can do.

[00:31:44] But, if I can impact thousands, Of people, millions of people. I want to interact with millions of people because I believe in my message. And I know that if I can inspire people to do something, to do something, whether it's take better care of your own pet or don't buy a pet or rescue a pet instead of buy a pet or whatever, look, I'm trying to help kids to recognize that we all need to do something for animals.

[00:32:12] It's set. It's preordained. I love my planet. And I look at the kids and I say to the kids, and I know that you do, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing with me if you didn't, I say to the kids, if we love the place where we live, why do something to help it? Because it's yours. And sometimes they're uncomfortable with it when I say that.

[00:32:35] I'm like, I'm taking care of the planet because it's mine. Because I ask them sometimes, why do you think I'm taking care of the planet? And the answers are, number one, for the animals. Yes, I do, I do take care of the planet for the animals, but is everyone going to take care of the planet for the animals?

[00:32:52] No, no, everyone is not going to do that. Not everybody cares, it's a fact. I'm sorry, but it's true. So it's true. I'm trying to help more people to care, good, then I can help to increase the number of people that are then going to do something. Because what do we take care of? We take care of what we love.

[00:33:10] So if we don't love snakes, we're not going to take care of snakes. If we don't love spiders, we're not going to take care of spiders. And those are two of my biggest challenges, to get people to love them. Snakes eat mice and rats, which carry ticks and fleas, which carry disease. And spiders eat mosquitoes, which kill more people on this planet than any other creature Then humans.

[00:33:31] I don't love that fact. And on that note, what I'm trying to help kids to think is in a practical manner. What can you do? I'm not talking to them about driving electric vehicles or sustainable energy. Hey, if I'm teaching a high school class, a college class, there's room for that. But with these younger kids, I want to dwell in the realm of practicality, and I want them to feel empowered to do something.

[00:33:56] Alex Re: Yeah, absolutely. Well, that was really informative, Chris. Thank you so much. You really did add a whole new facet to this conversation, and there's just so much more about you. Pigs and other wildlife that I can't wait to delve into deeper and learn more about. So thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you coming onto the podcast again.

[00:34:18] Chris Evers: Well, I appreciate you having me on the podcast and would be willing to do another. There are many topics that I'm passionate about when, when it comes to animals and, uh, have done a lot of great. Travel around the world to, to look for endangered species and learn as much as I can about the problems to hopefully help kids to start thinking about solutions.

[00:34:37] So, I I, I, I want to engage people in conversations that lead to action. Otherwise, why are we talking?

[00:34:45] Alex Re: I think we can all learn a lot from Chris and his relationship with Cooney Cooney, as well as all of the other animals he's rescued. He treats them with the utmost respect and knows the importance of learning about animals to truly understand them.

[00:35:00] He also really made me think about how we view animal intelligence, taking into account how we study animals and the environment that they've been raised in. Overall, this was such a great interview and I'm so glad he was able to join us. If you want to support Chris and his work, you should check out Animal Embassy's website, AnimalEmbassy.

[00:35:21] com. Thank you so much for coming on this adventure with me as we explored the world of pigs. You can find the sources that we use for this podcast And links to organizations that we reference@onwildlife.org. You can also email us with any questions at On Wildlife dot podcast@gmail.com, and you can follow us on Instagram at On Wildlife, or on TikTok at On Wildlife.

[00:35:48] And don't forget to tune in next month for another awesome episode, and that's on Wildlife.

[00:36:00] Jess Avellino: You've been listening to On Wildlife with Alex Re. On Wildlife provides general educational information on various topics as a public service, which should not be construed as professional, financial, real estate, tax, or legal advice. These are our personal opinions only. Please refer to our full disclaimer policy on our website for full details.